Dolby Atmos - from a ripping/archiving angle

[JonUrban]

Well it seems from reading through the "Welcome Steve Genewick" thread that there's an impending industry move from 5.1 surround music to Dolby Atmos music releases. I am a bit surprised about this, but after being a "first-adopter" type consumer since I was getting an allowance, I probably should not be. I am sure that the Dolby folks are kicking in a few bucks to get this music out there, much the way Sony did with SACD (at first). It's business, you know?

So where does this leave folks with 5.1 systems, and how does one go about converting a Dolby Atmos music file into a wav of flac file? How many channels are in the source? Is it variable?

I may be a bit behind the times with this stuff. I think I will order the R.E.M. BluRay and play around with it. I didn't bother getting it last year as I have the DVD-A, but it might be worth a shot just to see how it all comes together.

Any thoughts?

 

[sjcorne]

I'm rather curious about this myself! I think if you take a standard Blu-Ray that's Atmos-encoded, programs like DVD-Audio Extractor will default to a 7.1 fold-down. You could then go into audacity/sound forge/etc and fold the extra 7.1 channels into the rears, end with a 5.1 file.

BTW Jon, If you don't want to drop big bucks on the R.E.M. box, there's that INXS Kick Blu-Ray release which is also Atmos.

 

[skherbeck]

Hmm... I seem to remember ripping the INXS disc and getting a 7.1 file, then combining the surround and rear channels to make it 5.1, and it sounded pretty good. Is Atmos equivalent to 7.1 or is it something else?

 

[sjcorne]

I could be wrong about all this, but I think there's a considerable difference in Atmos at the movies vs. Atmos at home.

In the movies I'm pretty sure they're actually working with something like 64+ discrete channels for sound/atmospheric effects. At home, there's no standard speaker layout: you could several configurations: 5.1.2, 5.1.4, 7.1.2, 7.1.4. So, I think the Atmos codec will automatically fill all speakers despite which layout you have, so depending on how many speakers you could be hearing more isolated elements?

It's all pretty confusing, but I think that an Atmos mix will sound different depending on which configuration you have and it will definitely sound different downmixed to standard 5.1/7.1.

 

[MrSmithers]

Yep I was hoping to get something similar happening... Using DVDAE you get a 7.1 (It's shown 7.1 for 5 different albums so far) which I ripped as wav. But when I played the 7.1 file it didn't actually engage the atmos speakers. I guess you need some kind of information to pass onto the receiver for it to know where to go?

I did import the whole backup though as a video file and I was able to play atmos through DLNA which I thought was pretty cool! I got really giddy when the atmos display came up on my AVR! But those files are pretty big!

Still that's really good there's some more albums coming!

The R.E.M is excellent, and the INXS and Kraftwerk really good too...

There's some electronic music available as a free download mentioned in another thread which is pretty cool. Just don't forget your glow sticks...

http://mattdareywolf.com

 

[halbroome]

Sound systems are like computers now -- constant upgrade. A pain but you have to agree: evolution requires the death of earlier generations

 

[Mark Anderson]

A 7.1 rip contains the atmos info and when played on an atmos system will yield 5.1.4 depending on your playback configuration. When played on non atmos will yield 7.1. If you only have 5.1 you set your player to fold down to 5.1

 

[ubertrout]

I thought that Atmos had a TrueHD 7.1 "core," but I could be wrong. That 7.1 core is what ripping tools are seeing.

 

[marpow]

I have just ripped about 800 SACD stereo's and DVD-A mch in the last two months including re-rips, this topic makes me turn . I still have more DVD-A's, DTS and Blu Rays to rip. If Snood is banana , then I am .

 

[HomerJAU]

You are right ubertrout.

Here’s something you should find interesting:

If you play a 7.1 FLAC file converted from a Dolby TrueHD 7.1 or DTS- HDMA 7.1 track and play it on a 5.1 system the 2 rears are auto mixed into the sides on playback. You lose nothing.

Try it. There are some 7.1 test FLACs in the MCH Media Player section here on QQ. Play them on your 5.1 system. You will hear all 7 channels.

 

[HomerJAU]

...

So where does this leave folks with 5.1 systems, and how does one go about converting a Dolby Atmos music file into a wav of flac file? How many channels are in the source? Is it variable?
...
Any thoughts?

If you haven’t got an Atmos capable AVR you can get 7.1 from the Atmos TrueHD core and convert to FLAC.

If you do have an Atmos AVR you can convert to a file format for playback on a PC or Media Player by using MakeMKV to create a file containing the original Atmos track.

It’s the same process as a traditional BDA. Nothing changes if it’s Atmos, DTS-HDMA or TrueHD.

 

[JonUrban]

Now I am totally confused. I got the R.E.M. Atmos disc, and ran it through MakeMKV, and then AudioMuxer, and I am getting 5.1 24/48 output? What's up with that?

I am doing something wrong here. Anyone out there that can give me a clue what I'm doing wrong?

THANKS

 

[ubertrout]

Now I am totally confused. I got the R.E.M. Atmos disc, and ran it through MakeMKV, and then AudioMuxer, and I am getting 5.1 24/48 output? What's up with that?

I am doing something wrong here. Anyone out there that can give me a clue what I'm doing wrong?

THANKS

View attachment 36285

Looks like the audio track is 640 kbit Dolby Digital EX, which I'm guessing Audiomuxer upmixed to 24-bit lossless?

 

[MrSmithers]

Now I am totally confused. I got the R.E.M. Atmos disc, and ran it through MakeMKV, and then AudioMuxer, and I am getting 5.1 24/48 output? What's up with that?

I am doing something wrong here. Anyone out there that can give me a clue what I'm doing wrong?

THANKS

View attachment 36285

I defo got 7.1 using DVDAE from the MKV file. Could try to export to wav first? I know my receiver can only see max 5.1 on flac so maybe something similar with Audiomuxer?

 

[jimfisheye]

Well it seems from reading through the "Welcome Steve Genewick" thread that there's an impending industry move from 5.1 surround music to Dolby Atmos music releases. I am a bit surprised about this, but after being a "first-adopter" type consumer since I was getting an allowance, I probably should not be. I am sure that the Dolby folks are kicking in a few bucks to get this music out there, much the way Sony did with SACD (at first). It's business, you know?

So where does this leave folks with 5.1 systems, and how does one go about converting a Dolby Atmos music file into a wav of flac file? How many channels are in the source? Is it variable?

I may be a bit behind the times with this stuff. I think I will order the R.E.M. BluRay and play around with it. I didn't bother getting it last year as I have the DVD-A, but it might be worth a shot just to see how it all comes together.

Any thoughts?

Sound ridiculous to me. (The "impending industry move from 5.1 surround music to Dolby Atmos music releases" part.)
It's a stretch right now to get people to set up 5 speakers for music. Someone thinks they're going to get people to set up 60 or more speakers with some hanging from the ceiling?
OK...

That some will only be folding mixes down for their standard 5.1 array (or a watered down Atmos that's only say, 7.2.4 with no object speakers) is a moot point. You're not hearing the extended 3D quality of the mix if you're doing that.

I still love the idea. I mean, it's just a ridiculous nerdy over the top sound setup! Mixing for a 60-some speaker array with height and object channels sounds like extreme fun!
Which leads me to the same question:
Does anyone have a genuine multichannel mix for a system like this?
Not just an upmix from standard surround. Not just some polite wiggles or hard to notice reverb component. Something genuinely adventurous that you actually wouldn't be able to get across in 5.1! Like... I don't know... how about one of those Parliament/Funkadelic live shows with 17 people on stage and the landing the spaceship business. Or some madness from the Flaming Lips.

Seriously. Show me one file set (with the individual channels available as a Wavpack file or somesuch) that's actually a full Atmos multichannel mix (7.1 + height channels + object channels) that might lure me into actually setting up many more speakers to be able to hear it in all its insane glory. Still haven't found one single example...

 

[César]

Sound ridiculous to me. (The "impending industry move from 5.1 surround music to Dolby Atmos music releases" part.)
It's a stretch right now to get people to set up 5 speakers for music. Someone thinks they're going to get people to set up 60 or more speakers with some hanging from the ceiling?
OK...

That some will only be folding mixes down for their standard 5.1 array (or a watered down Atmos that's only say, 7.2.4 with no object speakers) is a moot point. You're not hearing the extended 3D quality of the mix if you're doing that.

I still love the idea. I mean, it's just a ridiculous nerdy over the top sound setup! Mixing for a 60-some speaker array with height and object channels sounds like extreme fun!
Which leads me to the same question:
Does anyone have a genuine multichannel mix for a system like this?
Not just an upmix from standard surround. Not just some polite wiggles or hard to notice reverb component. Something genuinely adventurous that you actually wouldn't be able to get across in 5.1! Like... I don't know... how about one of those Parliament/Funkadelic live shows with 17 people on stage and the landing the spaceship business. Or some madness from the Flaming Lips.

Seriously. Show me one file set (with the individual channels available as a Wavpack file or somesuch) that's actually a full Atmos multichannel mix (7.1 + height channels + object channels) that might lure me into actually setting up many more speakers to be able to hear it in all its insane glory. Still haven't found one single example...

The only example I can think of is the mix Andy Jackson created for the Pink Floyd exhibition in London. I did not have the chance to listen to it, but people's reports were pretty positive. But well, most likely we will never have access to the source files, or will we?
I seem to remember an Atmos mix was created for Sargent Pepper and played at EMI during the remix presentation.
If really this is the path forward, we should start seeing more releases in the very next future. What does not make me feel very optimistic is that after REM and INSX we got nothing else in Atmos from any of the big players.

 

[Marplot]

If really this is the path forward, we should start seeing more releases in the very next future. What does not make me feel very optimistic is that after REM and INSX we got nothing else in Atmos from any of the big players.

I guess it depends on your point of view on if these are big players or not ...
https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/KISS-Rocks-Vegas-Blu-ray/159878/

 

[HomerJAU]

Every Atmos mix I’ve seen, including Movies are all 48/24

 

[HomerJAU]

Now I am totally confused. I got the R.E.M. Atmos disc, and ran it through MakeMKV, and then AudioMuxer, and I am getting 5.1 24/48 output? What's up with that?

I am doing something wrong here. Anyone out there that can give me a clue what I'm doing wrong?

THANKS

View attachment 36285

Are you sure you selected the Atmos track in MakeMKV Jon. If you did try the MKV file in Music Media Helper as you should see the Atmos track to convert

 

[JonUrban]

Garry,

Tried that too and it see's the Side's but I don't seem to get them. Still getting 5.1 .flacs. I must be doing something wrong.
I will try another ripper and report back. Maybe my MakeMKV files didn't get generated properly.