DVD/DTS Poll Dream Theater - Systematic Chaos (Special Edition) [DD DVD]

[Neil Palfreyman]

Is it just me or did anybody else notice the constant drops and rises in volume? It goes up and down all the time. Destroys the whole thing for me.

Haven't noticed that at all on my system/copy. Could it be a system setting? "Night Mode" or similar?

 

[inkubuzz]

Wow, Im surprised, not by de album, but for the good reviews, I love DT. But for me this album is like MEtallicas St. Anger. I hate it to the point I would never sell it to anyone, just because Im a people person and dont wish anyone anything bad.

I love everything DT up ti Train of Thought, and then some songs of Octavarium, but after that... boring, LAways the same music, no innovation.

Before you could tell the difference between albums:

Images & Words, Awake, Falling Into Infinity (absolutely amazonh album, totally underrated), Scenes from a MEmory (a masterpice), Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence, all different and great.

But then came Systematic Chaos (the name says it all, its chaos...)

sorry but this is their worst efforts ever...

it would be unfai for me to vote, because i cant even get 5 minutes attention to the mix cause i get bored.

 

[The Bright Side]

Hey Inkubuzz, I partly agree... After about Train of Thought, they started sounding the same. Every new Dream Theater album was pretty much replaceable, it was just more DT. I bought Systematic Chaos because it was the only one in 5.1 and I figured, well, it's typical Dream Theater stuff, hence likable enough.

That said, "A Dramatic Turn of Events" is really cool! If you haven't checked it out yet, I recommend it. It's a return to more interesting ideas. No accounting for taste, of course - you may not like it, but I did.

Regarding the Systematic Chaos mix, thanks, Neil, for your comment. I haven't listened to it in a while, but will re-evaluate it some time soon. I've done some changes on my PC and the settings for my sound system, so perhaps something there "fixed" the volume issue.

I really, really hope some day they'll re-release their albums in 5.1. Or at least the standout ones, like Scenes from a Memory.

 

[Neil Palfreyman]

Wow, Im surprised, not by de album, but for the good reviews, I love DT. But for me this album is like MEtallicas St. Anger. I hate it to the point I would never sell it to anyone, just because Im a people person and dont wish anyone anything bad.

I love everything DT up ti Train of Thought, and then some songs of Octavarium, but after that... boring, LAways the same music, no innovation.

Before you could tell the difference between albums:

Images & Words, Awake, Falling Into Infinity (absolutely amazonh album, totally underrated), Scenes from a MEmory (a masterpice), Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence, all different and great.

But then came Systematic Chaos (the name says it all, its chaos...)

sorry but this is their worst efforts ever...

it would be unfai for me to vote, because i cant even get 5 minutes attention to the mix cause i get bored.

So this raises an interesting question for me: What do people review in these QQ polls? - the quality of the music or the quality of the surround mix? In my reviews I'm exclusively reviewing my opinion of the surround mix not the music. My rationale is that I can get reviews about the music on many other music sites but this is the only place I know of where I can find out about the quality of the surround (or hi-res) mix.

 

[0tto]

So this raises an interesting question for me: What do people review in these QQ polls? - the quality of the music or the quality of the surround mix? In my reviews I'm exclusively reviewing my opinion of the surround mix not the music. My rationale is that I can get reviews about the music on many other music sites but this is the only place I know of where I can find out about the quality of the surround (or hi-res) mix.

i agree with you that at QQ should be used this point in voting.
from my entire surround collection perhaps less than 30% releases, which i'm really
want to have because of genre/artists/albums
about 40% so-so, can listen to but i'm doing this very rarely.
rest 30% absolutely indifferent for me. played once after obtaining, in most cases with
"skips to next track" and since then never bothered myself for listening in many years.
but when comes to voting, i use only criterias of sound fidelity and approach to surround
mix, without any regards to my personal view on the thematical or musical contents.

 

[sukothai]

So this raises an interesting question for me: What do people review in these QQ polls? - the quality of the music or the quality of the surround mix? In my reviews I'm exclusively reviewing my opinion of the surround mix not the music. My rationale is that I can get reviews about the music on many other music sites but this is the only place I know of where I can find out about the quality of the surround (or hi-res) mix.

It says right in the poll heading that you should consider: 1) Mix, 2) Sonics and 3) Content. Many give a number to each quality and average out the final score. I appreciate those who provide this kind of detail when they vote, but I tend to go with a "gut feeling" single number that is an admittedly entirely subjective measure of how much I enjoyed the disc. I have a hard time measuring each of the qualities independently; as music is a very emotional experience for me.

 

[inkubuzz]

well, for me its a thing as a whole, if i cant listen to the music, how could I ever give my opinion about a mix?

just as the polls says:L

Great Mix, Great Sonics, Great Content

and content for me is mainly music, not just the nice pics or interviews on the disc...

 

[0tto]

just as the polls says:L

Great Mix, Great Sonics, Great Content

and content for me is mainly music, not just the nice pics or interviews on the disc...

content is very subjective criteria and shouldn't be blended with sound fidelity and surround mix because this
is absolutely different things - artistic and technical side of execution.
let see, i always liked Black Sabbath but lone quad version of their second album i found to be very bad from
point of mix and sound quality. should i give it 10 points, just because i like this album?
on another hand, i can't listen Flaming Lips or Britney Spears but both was done very well as a surround with
not bad sound quality. should i vote 1 point, just because it isn't music, i would love listen to?
i seen here pretty good rating for releases, which from point of fidelity and mix worth nothing, but some folks
likes those artists or musical genre. that's pretty much misleading guide for those, who's comes here for guidance
in regards of execution of surround releases. artistic side, to make own mind about, can be found and auditioned
on many internet resources

 

[DKA]

content is very subjective criteria and shouldn't be blended with sound fidelity and surround mix because this
is absolutely different things - artistic and technical side of execution.
let see, i always liked Black Sabbath but lone quad version of their second album i found to be very bad from
point of mix and sound quality. should i give it 10 points, just because i like this album?
on another hand, i can't listen Flaming Lips or Britney Spears but both was done very well as a surround with
not bad sound quality. should i vote 1 point, just because it isn't music, i would love listen to?
i seen here pretty good rating for releases, which from point of fidelity and mix worth nothing, but some folks
likes those artists or musical genre. that's pretty much misleading guide for those, who's comes here for guidance
in regards of execution of surround releases. artistic side, to make own mind about, can be found and auditioned
on many internet resources

Nothing else other than mix quality matters to me when responding to a poll. Quality of the music, packaging, menus, etc. is all completely irrelevant. It's about how much did the person doing the mix get out of the music to me. That's it. My grade will be as valid for someone listening to the physical disc as it is for someone listening to ripped MCH FLACs from the mixes.

 

[Neil Palfreyman]

Very interesting set of responses here. I'm firmly in the camp of "I come here and check these reviews to see if the surround/hi res mix makes the disc worth buying" even though the polls clearly mention "Sonics" (whatever that is) and "Content." As I said in an earlier post I can get reviews on the music and (if I want it) "extras" on other sites but this is the only site I know of where mix is the center of attention (pun intended.)

 

[inkubuzz]

Ok, i gave the album another spin and it is a very fun mix... But the music is still meeehh...

It is not a great mix cause it has some effects and things in the back that dont feel like they are well "blended in"


Almost all keyboard solos are in the back and it us very discrete...

 

[keenly]

The bass guitar is barely audible for 95% of this album! The bottom end coming from the drums is immense. Very annoying.

 

[keenly]

I gave it 6. While the music would get an 8 from me I don't like the entire mix: not consistent enough and some weird decisions that have been made.
- Vocals too loud, overpowering the music at times
- Bass is waaaaaay too loud in The Dark Eternal Night
- Not enough use of the rear speakers, at least not on a constant basis

Also: hot mastering! Not nearly as bad as some others out there who're really wrecks, but still. For example: Petrucci's acoustic/clean electric part in the beginning of The Ministry of Lost Souls: no dynamics man! It sounds as loud as everything that comes before and after it.

It is their first record in 5.1 so maybe they'll get it right next time...

Bass guitar is not too loud at any point, that is the bottom end from drums. Listen again; bass guitar is nowhere near loud enough.

 

[SMS]

Bass guitar is not too loud at any point, that is the bottom end from drums. Listen again; bass guitar is nowhere near loud enough.

I find the bass guitar to be too quiet on nearly all Dream Theater albums, even in the stereo mix. I don't know if it is just Myung's bass tone, or if Portnoy/Petrucci had too much influence on the mix. I think Myung is a good bass player, but you rarely get to hear him.

 

[keenly]

I find the bass guitar to be too quiet on nearly all Dream Theater albums, even in the stereo mix. I don't know if it is just Myung's bass tone, or if Portnoy/Petrucci had too much influence on the mix. I think Myung is a good bass player, but you rarely get to hear him.

So the CDS are the same then? That is a shame. I would of loved to hear vocals/ bass guitar isolated in the center channel so we could hear them clearly.

 

[SMS]

So the CDS are the same then? That is a shame. I would of loved to hear vocals/ bass guitar isolated in the center channel so we could hear them clearly.

Yes, the CDs mostly lack bass guitar in the mix. Especially from "Train of Thought" through "Black Clouds ...". The bass sounds better on earlier albums; "Metropolis", "Awake" and "Falling into Infinity". Also slightly better on the last couple; "A Dramatic Turn of Events" in particular. The HiRes versions of the last 4 albums on HDTracks improve the dynamic range significantly, but the ones I've heard are too bright, resulting in ear fatigue. I think maybe they used the vinyl master (which often has treble boosted to make up for the vinyl's natural roll off).

I think the fact that Myung 's tone is so clean causes his bass to easily get lost in the mix, especially because Dream Theater's music is so dense.

 

[skherbeck]

I think I'm lucky that this is my first Dream Theater experience, because I'm free of the expectations and comparisons that long-time fans can't help. From my point of view, this album is really enjoyable, tight, melodic progressive hard rock/metal with mind-blowing musicianship. I hear hints of Rush and Muse all over this album. The songs are all strong... No skipping needed. The surround mix is quite immersive to my ears (much moreso than any of the Rush mixes) and a big improvement over the stereo mix. My only complaint is the less-than-perfect fidelity (not overly compressed, but just the crappy-sounding cymbals you get with Dolby Digital). If this is one of their lesser albums, I can't wait to get one of their best! An 8.

 

[The Bright Side]

Hey guys, is it just me or does this have horrible dynamic range normalization applied all over? I've had this album for a couple years and every time I spin it, these constant, crazy volume changes hit me in the face.

It's like, in the middle of a guitar solo, suddenly the guitar's volume drops like an airplane falling into an air pocket. Of course, this is especially noticeable when there are supposed to be spikes in volume, e.g. when drums kick in after an acoustic moment. All of a sudden, the whole song drops - but its overall volume seems to stay the same.

Is it just me? I thought at first this might be some sort of DD normalization thing going on, but I have long disabled the A/52 dynamic range compression flag in VLC and before I listened today, I even converted the DD to FLAC and it's still the same. I also don't experience this with other DD releases, like e.g. the fantastic Janet Jackson DVD. Anybody else have the same impression?

 

[rugene]

Hey guys, is it just me or does this have horrible dynamic range normalization applied all over? I've had this album for a couple years and every time I spin it, these constant, crazy volume changes hit me in the face.

It's like, in the middle of a guitar solo, suddenly the guitar's volume drops like an airplane falling into an air pocket. Of course, this is especially noticeable when there are supposed to be spikes in volume, e.g. when drums kick in after an acoustic moment. All of a sudden, the whole song drops - but its overall volume seems to stay the same.

Is it just me? I thought at first this might be some sort of DD normalization thing going on, but I have long disabled the A/52 dynamic range compression flag in VLC and before I listened today, I even converted the DD to FLAC and it's still the same. I also don't experience this with other DD releases, like e.g. the fantastic Janet Jackson DVD. Anybody else have the same impression?

Are you talking about the stereo version or the surround? because I have only listened to the 5.1 mixes and it didn't sound strange to me. I give this a 9/10

 

[The Bright Side]

Thanks! Yeah I was talking about surround. Perhaps I'm doing something wrong.