Dual Disc DualDisc Can't be sold in Europe?

[stephen.naylor]

Got this from Hi Fidelity Review...

"DualDiscs are not allowed to be sold in Europe at this time (due to patents held on the flipper disc concept by Dieter Dierks of DVD International in Germany)."

Does anyone know if this is true and if so, is this likely to change in the near future?

This was towards the bottom of the following web page

http://www.highfidelityreview.com/news/news.asp?newsnumber=14918904

In the section headed, "Sony Europe Notice About Dual Disc Use With CD, DVD, SACD and Vaio Products".

Apologies if you all know this already, but it was news to me. It might explain the lack of new things to buy at places like Play.com.

 

[Jesper]

That's way I buy import... :banana:

 

[bmoura]

Got this from Hi Fidelity Review...

"DualDiscs are not allowed to be sold in Europe at this time (due to patents held on the flipper disc concept by Dieter Dierks of DVD International in Germany)."

Does anyone know if this is true and if so, is this likely to change in the near future?

This was towards the bottom of the following web page

http://www.highfidelityreview.com/news/news.asp?newsnumber=14918904

In the section headed, "Sony Europe Notice About Dual Disc Use With CD, DVD, SACD and Vaio Products".

Apologies if you all know this already, but it was news to me. It might explain the lack of new things to buy at places like Play.com.

Right. Dierks holds a European patent on a similar CD/DVD flipper disc he calls DVD Plus. Hence the major labels plan to keep Dual Disc off the European market.

He's also been quoted in past articles about possibly suing over the Dual Disc in the U.S. But the industry consensus is he won't, unless he obtains a patent approval in the U.S. on his flipper disc.

 

[rusinurbe]

Does this mean more Pure DVD-A release in Europe ?

 

[neil wilkes]

Totally true, and really ridiculous too.
It's an example of how destructive software patents are, especially since he never even got a working prototype happening as he could not solve the bonding problems.
OneDisc, the touted "alternative", is also to be the + format for it's DVD component, so yet another "format", and moreover, one that will not meet the DVD FLLC or the DVD Forum specs.
DualDisc, to my mind, is an abomination. There are wildly differing opinions, but Sony have killed the whole concept by refusing to use the lossless multichannel option - all Sony DualDisc are either Dolby Digital or DTS mixes, not real high res as was originally proposed.
And yet these discs are still being sold as DVD-Audio. See www.music4dvd.com, which has the Bowie "Reality" DualDisc in it's DVD-Audio section, despite the fact it is a CD/DVD-V disc with no DVD-A content whatsoever!!

Besides - we don't need DualDisc.
Why bother with the Redbook component?
A 16/48 stereo can be put onto DVD-A in the compatibility zone, if authored correctly by someone who knows how to do it, and every DVD player can also play CD too.

If a CD is required, it is actually cheaper to produce a CD.

 

[El Guapo]

Hi there!
Sorry for digging out this old thread, but I was wondering about a mention about patent issues with DualDisc in Europe in another thread and I was using the search function...

It's an example of how destructive software patents are, especially since he never even got a working prototype happening as he could not solve the bonding problems.

Well, I doubt that this one was a software patent. Seems pretty much hardware to me... Besides: there have been DVD plus releases (I know at least of one here in Germany, it's sitting on my shelf right now It's a concert double DVD plus of German pop star Herbert Grönemeyer from the year 2000; frankly, I would have much rather preferred a DVD-9 which holds the whole concert video without the need to insert the other disc halfway through (the DVD side is single layer) and maybe a double CD with the audio alone; this probably would have been cheaper to produce too).

DualDisc, to my mind, is an abomination.

This is a strong choice of words, but in principle I agree! To me even the "good" kind with a real HiRez DVD-Audio side are still pretty useless. I would prefer a standard DVD-Audio (and maybe a seperate CD if the industry thinks it is needed to sell the package as a special edition release, for all I care...)

And yet these discs are still being sold as DVD-Audio. See www.music4dvd.com, which has the Bowie "Reality" DualDisc in it's DVD-Audio section, despite the fact it is a CD/DVD-V disc with no DVD-A content whatsoever!!

In retrospect I think the name DVD-Audio was part of the marketing screw-up of the format. If you look at ebay in the DVD-Audio section you will find more DVD-Video discs with audio content (live concerts, music videos and the like) than real DVD-Audio discs (at least on the German ebay.de).

I think maybe the name is too similar to "Audio-DVD" which is often used for these kind of concert DVD-Videos and most people don't realize/are too stupid/don't care enough (take your pick) that a DVD-Audio is actually something different...

Best regards,
Oliver

 

[Guy Robinson]

Yeah, they should have called DVD-A, SSAB(Super Sampling and Bitrate) or SPCM (Super Pule Code Modulation) or something like that.

 

[elmer]

DualDiscs can be sold in Europe - as a matter of fact, The Ian Gillan release mentioned in an earlier thread will soon be available vie Immergent Records in UK - from what I understand, it will be a 5.1 MLP mix.

 

[winopener]

Dualdisc in Italy are sold - the problem is to find stores taht carries them, and then check out carefully which one has a surround mix.
So far has been released a dozen of them from italian artists. A definitve "yes".

 

[El Guapo]

I just realized that my posting might have been misleading on that account: there are DualDiscs sold in Germany as well. I think it is just a matter of licensing fees. Some companies seem unwilling to pay them so they don't release them in the first place?

 

[rusinurbe]

I just realized that my posting might have been misleading on that account: there are DualDiscs sold in Germany as well. I think it is just a matter of licensing fees. Some companies seem unwilling to pay them so they don't release them in the first place?

If it means that Warner carry on releaseing Double disc in teh UK of materail on Dual disc in the states i am all for it. The double disc is such a much better compramise !

 

[bmoura]

I just realized that my posting might have been misleading on that account: there are DualDiscs sold in Germany as well. I think it is just a matter of licensing fees. Some companies seem unwilling to pay them so they don't release them in the first place?

Exactly. The companies making Dual Discs in Europe resolved the patent issue by paying royalties to Dieter Dieks - the DVD International guy.

 

[YmSeb]

The companies making Dual Discs in Europe resolved the patent issue by paying royalties to Dieter Dieks - the DVD International guy.

That's right and this is quite recent.

In France, the first DualDiscs are finally going to hit the market this week, through Sony BMG only at the moment.

You can read an interview about the Sony BMG France CIO here (in French, sorry):
http://www.clubic.com/article-32944-1-le-dualdisc-sort-en-france-le-point-avec-sony-bmg.html

Basically he says that:

- SACD and DVD-A's are a failure because the equipment required to take advantage of them is way too expensive.

- DualDisc will bring video extras. To him, the DVD side can only be a DVD-V (remember it's Sony), readable on any DVD player. He says their concern is to produce exclusive behind-the-scenes features, they won't just fill the DVD-V with music videos from the artist. He says NOTHING about surround mixes.

- Sony BMG France has definitely stopped to sell SACD's. Sales are too low, consumers aren't interested (he doesn't say why!).

- There won't be any advertising campaign for the DualDiscs. He says that they will let the artists speak about them.

As you can see, it's pretty incredible to read that. This CIO is a joke ! SACD's were NEVER advertised over here, so no wonder there are a commercial failure.

DualDiscs in France will just be a little gadget with video features only. And as they have no advertising plan, they might not work as well. Same mistake.

Anyway, I will still buy imports from the USA, since the first DualDiscs to hit the streets in France will be local French singers that I can't stand. Sony BMG France will also release some int'l artists such as Pink and Michael Jackson.

 

[Guy Robinson]

- SACD and DVD-A's are a failure because the equipment required to take advantage of them is way too expensive.

$150 is too much? I guess he thinks that everyone has one of those $40 Walmart DVD players.