Dumbest anti-surround argument you've heard

[kfbkfb]

Surround Sound Music before the Year 1590* | QuadraphonicQuad
^^^
(drifting OT, this thread lists some titles)


Regarding Quad, among my friends (1970s), I was one of the few people who had a component Stereo Audio system (my Sony TA-1150 had the capability of being easily adapted to act as a Quad Master Control system although I never used it for that), nearly all of my friends were using Magnavox Console Stereos to play their LPs (I did try to interest them in buying another speaker in order to set up DynaQuad, but none of them did).


Kirk Bayne

 

[Soundfield]

So the song “I Only Have Eyes For You” means that no one else is interested in her; and that he may yet prove to be a philandering SOB?

Actually, it means that the only potentially romantic partner for me is you.

No.
It means I have nothing but my love for you.

“Only I have eyes for you” would mean that I’m the only one who really gets you.

Yes. It means I am the sole person who loves you.
Which one the songwriter intended is unclear due to his sloppy use of English! I suspect he wanted to say "I have eyes only for you" which means I love you and no one else.

 

[Jim the Oldbie]

I dunno, it never seemed clumsy to me. Just looks like an application of the expression, to "have eyes for," (be attracted to), which was more popular back then. The way it's worded keeps the familiar phrase intact, but to me it looks grammatically correct anyway.

To mosey past the topic: I can't say I've heard that many "dumb" anti-surround comments first-hand, mostly just broadly dismissive. (Which I guess is one flavor of dumb, eh.)

 

[Soundfield]

Just looks like an application of the expression, to "have eyes for," (be attracted to), which was more popular back then.

Yes of course, but we were discussing the use of the word only, whose rules of application to subsequent words in a sentence (although simple) many people don't seem to be able to understand. But I guess English grammar doesn't get the attention it used to in schools anymore.

 

[jaybird100]

There are, of course, artists who don't want their music to be released in quad or surround. Did you know that Elton John didn't want his albums released in surround... until he heard it? Now, the only obstacle is UMG. Paul Simon is another one. He controls all of his masters; he made a point of that when he bought all of his masters from Columbia and moved everything to Warner Brothers. When Warner was releasing DVD-A discs, I believe only one of his albums got released that way, and in surround, and he wasn't happy with it. He has since stated that he will not allow his work to be released in anything other than plain, vanilla stereo. He had no say over Columbia's releasing several of his albums in SQ (which may have been what soured him to the idea), and why he took control of his masters.

 

[esimms86]

Yes of course, but we were discussing the use of the word only, whose rules of application to subsequent words in a sentence (although simple) many people don't seem to be able to understand. But I guess English grammar doesn't get the attention it used to in schools anymore.

I have a Bachelors Degree in English Literature which makes me somewhat of an outlier when looking at society as a whole. I’m not insinuating that it makes me better or smarter, rather, it’s just an acknowledgement of a particular acquired skill set.

In any event, schools have certainly been dumbed down over the years here in the US. For one, they don’t teach cursive anymore. My home state of Massachusetts also used to require passing the MCAS exams in order to receive a high school diploma. The MCAS basically was a kind of guarantee that a graduate had demonstrated, at minimum, eighth grade competency in English and Math. The MCAS was the highest ELHI graduation competency standard in the country. Massachusetts has since abandoned the MCAS, substituting it with the much lower competency standard used throughout the country, including states with lower adult literacy percentages.

Mathematics competency in the US has, likewise, fallen(actually, plummeted) to the point where the country ranks low in that category when viewed among the other industrialized nations of the world.

The average American’s knowledge of geography, not surprisingly, is abysmal.

Text messaging has further eroded standards for grammar and spelling.

For what it’s worth, I know many people who only read books in audiobook form. While audiobooks admittedly have their benefits and advantages, they reinforce listening skills over reading skills.

Okay, rant over.

 

[esimms86]

There are, of course, artists who don't want their music to be released in quad or surround. Did you know that Elton John didn't want his albums released in surround... until he heard it? Now, the only obstacle is UMG. Paul Simon is another one. He controls all of his masters; he made a point of that when he bought all of his masters from Columbia and moved everything to Warner Brothers. When Warner was releasing DVD-A discs, I believe only one of his albums got released that way, and in surround, and he wasn't happy with it. He has since stated that he will not allow his work to be released in anything other than plain, vanilla stereo. He had no say over Columbia's releasing several of his albums in SQ (which may have been what soured him to the idea), and why he took control of his masters.

It also makes good business sense for an artist to control over his/hee own masters.

As an aside, one could only imagine how Simon’s viewpoint might have been changed by a surround mix done in conjunction with his engineer and collaborator, Roy Halee.

 

[Soundfield]

In any event, schools have certainly been dumbed down over the years here in the US. For one, they don’t teach cursive anymore.

Good grief, I'd no idea, that's appalling. The long term negative consequences for society fill me with dread.
I’m often staggered that even on this fairly erudite forum there are many who don’t seem to know (or don’t care) about the most fundamental aspects of the English language - that it’s and its have completely different meanings, how to apostrophise possessive plurals, the difference between there, their and they’re or even when to use to, too or two! But it's probably best If I stop ranting too!

 

[MidiMagic]

Nope.
The word ‘only’ modifies the application of the subsequent word(s), thus-
"I only have two ears" = I have nothing but two ears
"I have only two ears" = I have many things, two of which are ears
“Only I have two ears” = I am the sole person with two ears

In formal speech and writing, only is placed directly before the word or words that it modifies: she could interview only three applicants in the morning. In all but the most formal contexts, however, it is generally regarded as acceptable to put only before the verb: she could only interview three applicants in the morning. Care must be taken not to create ambiguity, esp in written English, in which intonation will not, as it does in speech, help to show to which item in the sentence only applies. A sentence such as she only drinks tea in the afternoon is capable of two interpretations and is therefore better rephrased either as she drinks only tea in the afternoon (i.e. no other drink) or she drinks tea only in the afternoon (i.e. at no other time)
Collins English Dictionary

I caught myself on that as soon as I read the post the next day. But I thought editing ended after an hour (it used to).

 

[jaybird100]

Good grief, I'd no idea, that's appalling. The long term negative consequences for society fill me with dread.

Then again, those of us who know cursive can use it as a secret code if we don't want the kiddies to be able to read it.

 

[par4ken]

There are, of course, artists who don't want their music to be released in quad or surround. Did you know that Elton John didn't want his albums released in surround... until he heard it? Now, the only obstacle is UMG. Paul Simon is another one. He controls all of his masters; he made a point of that when he bought all of his masters from Columbia and moved everything to Warner Brothers. When Warner was releasing DVD-A discs, I believe only one of his albums got released that way, and in surround, and he wasn't happy with it. He has since stated that he will not allow his work to be released in anything other than plain, vanilla stereo. He had no say over Columbia's releasing several of his albums in SQ (which may have been what soured him to the idea), and why he took control of his masters.

While I think that artists should be properly compensated for their work, I don't think that they should be able to control what is released or in what form it is released in. Studios once had complete control, which was wrong. Now many artists or artists families have the control, which is wrong also! I don't understand why a reasonable thinking person would resist having his or her work from being released in a form that people (even if a small group) demand!

 

[MidiMagic]

Surround Sound Music before the Year 1590* | QuadraphonicQuad
^^^
(drifting OT, this thread lists some titles)


Regarding Quad, among my friends (1970s), I was one of the few people who had a component Stereo Audio system (my Sony TA-1150 had the capability of being easily adapted to act as a Quad Master Control system although I never used it for that), nearly all of my friends were using Magnavox Console Stereos to play their LPs (I did try to interest them in buying another speaker in order to set up DynaQuad, but none of them did).


Kirk Bayne

The first quad system I owned WAS a console with a back speaker added.

 

[par4ken]

Then again, those of us who know cursive can use it as a secret code if we don't want the kiddies to be able to read it.

This was irking me so much, I remember looking to see if their was a cursive font for the computer. My intention would be to send all my messages in cursive. As I recall there was a font available but not for the applications that I was using. Also a computer font does not look quite the same as actual handwriting does. Something just wrong about getting hand printed notes from adults!

 

[MidiMagic]

Expanding on "cloth ears":

- I once knew a woman to whom room decor was everything in the world. She did not want anything in the room that did not look like furniture. She allowed a stereo only in console form in a finely finished cabinet. The TV was in a cabinet with doors.

- I dated another woman who was totally upset when she saw my media room. The TV and all of the speakers were mounted on the wall. She was one of those people who rearranges the furniture in the room every few weeks and did not like the fact that these items could not be rearranged.

- I know a man for whom stereo and surround sound mean nothing. When he was in the military, his hearing in his left ear was destroyed when a cannon fired within 3 feet of his head.

 

[MidiMagic]

This was irking me so much, I remember looking to see if their was a cursive font for the computer. My intention would be to send all my messages in cursive. As I recall there was a font available but not for the applications that I was using. Also a computer font does not look quite the same as actual handwriting does. Something just wrong about getting hand printed notes from adults!

As a computer programmer, I print most of the time. I use cursive only for my signature and writing checks.

 

[jaybird100]

While I think that artists should be properly compensated for their work, I don't think that they should be able to control what is released or in what form it is released in. Studios once had complete control, which was wrong. Now many artists or artists families have the control, which is wrong also! I don't understand why a reasonable thinking person would resist having his or her work from being released in a form that people (even if a small group) demand!

I agree, but if the artist owns the masters, he should be able to dictate how it's to be re-released. Unfortunately, in Paul's case, he has fans who would jump at the chance to own SACD's, in multichannel, offered to us surroundaholics. I'm sure Dutton Vocalion would be happy to oblige, too.

 

[Todd 987]

I’m a neophyte who has dabbled in surround sound for about fifteen years. I enjoy it immensely and have upgraded the system a few times over the years within my limited budget. Over the years I have had friends over to listen in surround and the general reaction is meh, that’s interesting, and then dismiss it. They just don’t get excited about music as I still do and can’t, or don’t want to, absorb music with no distractions. That’s fine. I am out of the converting business. Listening to music is a solo endeavor for me to enjoy at this stage of life.

 

[jimfisheye]

While I think that artists should be properly compensated for their work, I don't think that they should be able to control what is released or in what form it is released in.

Maybe you didn't mean that to come across as taking control over someone else's work? I can't think of an easier way to trigger a musician to taking his ball and going home. "No one is ever going to hear this and you can all just..."

I want to suggest one of the root problem in flawed releases and flawed reissues is the artist getting left out of the loop.

It's maddeningly frustrating when an artist has had bad experiences or whatever it is and it leads them to dismiss or block the release of a surround mix! I'm with you there if that's what you were getting at. I don't know what the solution is i that scenario but trying to take over control of a release is only going to make it worse unfortunately.

 

[JonUrban]

This was irking me so much, I remember looking to see if their was a cursive font for the computer. My intention would be to send all my messages in cursive. As I recall there was a font available but not for the applications that I was using. Also a computer font does not look quite the same as actual handwriting does. Something just wrong about getting hand printed notes from adults!

I remember in grade school, they used to have that thing, like a banner across one of the walls with all of the cursive letters, upper and lower case, from A to Z.

Thinking back, the capital 'I' is probably the one that would give kids today the most trouble figuring out. It sort of looks like a praying mantis! Or at least, that's what I thought back when I was in 3rd grade (before Velcro was invented!)

 

[par4ken]

Maybe you didn't mean that to come across as taking control over someone else's work? I can't think of an easier way to trigger a musician to taking his ball and going home. "No one is ever going to hear this and you can all just..."

I want to suggest one of the root problem in flawed releases and flawed reissues is the artist getting left out of the loop.

It's maddeningly frustrating when an artist has had bad experiences or whatever it is and it leads them to dismiss or block the release of a surround mix! I'm with you there if that's what you were getting at. I don't know what the solution is i that scenario but trying to take over control of a release is only going to make it worse unfortunately.

A thorny issue. I wouldn't want to see an artist work stolen, but it's a crime that an artist can block something as simple as a surround re-mix or refuse to have a classic album released at all.