DVD Audio extractor ripping rears at different volume levels?

[quadsearcher]

What you write above is true, but not the whole story.

For lossy codecs AC3 and DTS, which use psychoacoustic models, there is no simple relation between bitrate and audible quality. They also don't 'use' bits the same way. In fact they are hard to compare fairly. And in the few actual controlled listening tests, there's no clear winner, despite all the audiophile mythology about 'Dullby'.

As for MLP (lossless) vs lossy, there's also a knee jerk contention that lossy will sound worse. That too is highly dependent on conditions. Regarding lossy multichannel, note a general rule as per Dr. Toole that as you add channels from mono to stereo to multi, reliable discrimination of audio quality decreases. (It's why Toole/Olive's famous speaker preference studies used *single* loudspeakers.

OK. That fits with some information I've skimmed, and subjectively, I wouldn't disagree. There was some Fleetwood Mac MC disc that was only released as a lossy codec but it sounded just fine. Nothing to compare it to, but sounded fine.

For me, the interest I have in wanting to pin down a relationship between audible quality and codec , which I understand is generally not possible between lossy codecs and may be difficult or not practical to perceive between lossless and lossy, is that before my discs rot, tapes get sticky, or decent cartridges are unavailable, I want to back everything (RAID etc.) up as others have. I would lose what's left of my mind to attempt to decide which codec on each disc is most worthy of converting to FLAC for archiving, so it seems to me that of the three streams of a DVDA, MLP is digitally closest to original (WAV) so I should pick that one.

Now knowing that DTS and AC3 are not necessarily hierarchical, if MLP is not available on a given disc, I probably would use a flawed A/B comparison briefly and not think too much about it, I'd convert/archive one of them. Flip a coin or something.

Dr. Toole? Olive? Piques my interest.

 

[paligap]

Did anybody ever confirm what the OOP reported in Post #1? He provided the discs in Post #16, but I don't have any of them to check. I have to admit I've never checked the levels after I've ripped using DVDAE.

I also have to admit that, at least for me, that first screen with DVDAE can get tricky, depending on the disc.

 

[SeeMoreDigital]

Historically...

Back in 1997, DTS-CD's offered us access to the first 'lossy' encoded 5.1 channel disc based music content. A couple of years later SACD disc's arrived with 'losslessly' encoded (dsd) 6 channel disc based content (via analogue outputs). Followed a year later by DVD-A's 'losslessly' encoded (mpl packed pcm) 5.1 channel disc based content (via analogue outputs).

Suffice to say, all of them can sound excellent, and can be enjoyed perfectly fine without having to know what the audio format is before-hand

 

[SeeMoreDigital]

Did anybody ever confirm what the OOP reported in Post #1? He provided the discs in Post #16, but I don't have any of them to check. I have to admit I've never checked the levels after I've ripped using DVDAE.

I also have to admit that, at least for me, that first screen with DVDAE can get tricky, depending on the disc.

Personally speaking... I haven't noticed having problems with regard to the rear (or sides as they are now) channels being out of balance.

 

[boxhead]

It does. In his Oppo Settings, DVD-Audio Mode is set to 'DVD-Audio'. That means it will default to MLP playback.

My comment was covered later in the thread so I've removed it.

 

[par4ken]

So one conclusion that can be made, now that I understand what MLP is, is that DVDAE is defaulting to a "better" source, right?

You see, when the layman plays a DVD-A and sees that the only options are Dolby Surround or DTS Surround, it becomes a pretty simple choice based on what sounds better to the listener. How would a layman know that there's something buried in the "AUDIO_TS" directory that's called "MLP"?

Anyway, if DVDAE is defaulting to better audio information, we'll go with that.

That's right DVDAE defaults to the "AUDIO_TS" folder because that's where the best quality audio files are. If you try a DVD-Video disc it will default to the "VIDEO-TS" folder and show DTS and/or
AC3 whatever is there.

Likewise a player without DVD-Audio capability will only show the lossy options.

MLP is Meridian Lossless Processing, think of it as sort of flac for DVD, it has no quality loss, it can be extracted to bit perfect PCM. You should always use it if it is present, forgetting about the lossy DTS and AC3 versions.

 

[HomerJAU]

MLP is Meridian Lossless Processing, think of it as sort of flac…

MLP = Meridian Lossless Packing
FLAC = Free Lossless Audio Codec

MLP is used by Dolby in Dolby TrueHD (lossless packing/compression makes files smaller)

 

[B&W Driver]

My comment was covered later in the thread so I've removed it.

Why, mate? I'd be very happy to read your thoughts on this.

 

[JediJoker]

I don't think I've ever encountered a DVD-Audio disc with both MLP and DTS-HD MA. The latter usually appears on Blu-rays and straight up DTS commonly shows up almost anywhere but mostly on DVD-Video disks, but is the lossy DTS version, not the MA variety.

Just so. DTS-HD (and DTS-HD MA)—along with Dolby TrueHD, Dolby Atmos, and DTS-X—are not within spec for any DVD variant, be it Audio or Video. These formats may be supported on an AVCHD disc, which uses the Blu-ray file structure and types on a DVD, typically burned by a home user or camcorder (I'm not familiar with any commercial AVCHD Disc releases, burned or pressed).

 

[SeeMoreDigital]

Just so. DTS-HD (and DTS-HD MA)—along with Dolby TrueHD, Dolby Atmos, and DTS-X—are not within spec for any DVD variant, be it Audio or Video.

Indeed... With regard to 'lossless' audio streams, the DVD-Audio specification primarily supports MLP (Meridian Lossless Packed) LPCM audio encoded at a maximum of 96.0kHz/24-bits for 5.1-channel audio or at a maximum of 192.0kHz/24-bits for stereo audio.

However, Blu-ray Audio (such as: HFPA or Pure Audio) discs can support the other lossless audio formats you have mentioned at a maximum of 192.0kHz/24-bits for both stereo and multi-channel audio including spatial variants...

 

[JediJoker]

However, Blu-ray Audio (HFPA) discs can support the other lossless audio formats at a maximum of 192.0kHz/24-bits for both stereo and multi-channel audio including spatial variants...

"High Fidelity Pure Audio" (HFPA) was a marketing term used by Universal; nothing more. "Blu-ray Audio" was a proposed, but never realized standard that would have been a successor to DVD-Audio, with the highest quality audio residing in a separate directory from the video. As it is, all to-spec Blu-ray Discs are BD-Video (BD-V), and only contain audio attached to video, HFPA included.