Emerson Lake and Palmer "Lucky Man"

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gene_stl

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So when I was young and skinny, I went into what was probably the best hifi store in St. Louis, "HiFi Showroom" (sniff)

One of the salesmen, who knew me, said, "Listen to this" He played ELP Lucky Man.

It played on a very large set of wall mounted electrostatic loudspeakers. It was an amazing stereophonic experience. One of the best I ever had. Of course it has not been repeatable. It was played on a stereo LP. (too early for CDs by a long shot probably early early seventies.)

My question for our august assembly is, has anyone heard this in a similar fashion. None of the CD versions nor the you tube versions have the separation that I experienced that time. I was not smokin anything.
I was very impressed. Is there a mch version. or a remix that kicks ass. Other than this I was not a particular follower of ELP although I have seen some things on you tube that do tempt me and I even have been reminding myself to check for them when I visit Half Price Books or V Stock.

Any comments or pointers appreciated.
 

winopener

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Lucky Man in surround is present on:

1) first release of Brain Salad Surgery dvd-a as a bonus track

2) 2012 reissue of first album, with dvd-a

These are two different mch mixes.
 

Sonik Wiz

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So when I was young and skinny, I went into what was probably the best hifi store in St. Louis, "HiFi Showroom" (sniff)

One of the salesmen, who knew me, said, "Listen to this" He played ELP Lucky Man.

It played on a very large set of wall mounted electrostatic loudspeakers. It was an amazing stereophonic experience. One of the best I ever had. Of course it has not been repeatable. It was played on a stereo LP. (too early for CDs by a long shot probably early early seventies.)

My question for our august assembly is, has anyone heard this in a similar fashion. None of the CD versions nor the you tube versions have the separation that I experienced that time. I was not smokin anything.
I was very impressed. Is there a mch version. or a remix that kicks ass. Other than this I was not a particular follower of ELP although I have seen some things on you tube that do tempt me and I even have been reminding myself to check for them when I visit Half Price Books or V Stock.

Any comments or pointers appreciated.

Wow cool post and thanks to the replies I was reminded that Lucky Man was a bonus track BSS. Hey, I was reminded that I actually have that DVD-A! It's one of those I love & respect but haven't played in years. What's wrong with me?

So a few minutes ago I pushed buttons & gave Lucky Man a re-listen. Holy crap what a thrill! An amazing example of how great music from way back can still sound so good in surround. How fortuitous for ELP to have this on their first album.

Anyway Brain Salad Surgery is on the must listen to list for after dinner in its entirety. I can't say if it would thrill you the same as your first experience but it sure pleases me!

My inroduction to ELP was an interesting one. In the early 70's my parents vacationed in Mexico. As a souvenir for me they brought back the TARKUS album. Cuz ya know, with a mecha-armadillo on the cover they figured it was Mexican music. Really.
 

Sonik Wiz

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To @gene_stl , may I relate a similar experience to your ELP audition?
The best hifi store in Kansas City in the 70's was undeniably David Beatty HiFi. @kfbkfb lives in the area I'm sure he remembers this place.

Anyway besides Phil Spector the store also had their own Wall of Sound. This was pretty much literal... a speaker system custom designed & built into the walls in your Playboy mansion. Of course the store had one to demo. It consisted of 2, 18" woofers, IIRC 4, 6" mid-range, and one huge horn tweeter. All JBL components driven by Mac amps, natch. Oh yeah, stereo. Two of these monster sytems about 6' apart. The speaker grill was actually very thin red pleated fabric designed to look like conventional window drapery.

The salesman Curly (who was bald) pulled out a Blood Sweat and Tears album and played Spinning Wheel. The sound was best described as ferocious! Not like I knew about stereo imaging or minute audio detail back then, but it just blew me away. You could actually see the drapes blow a little bit from the SPL.

Curly pointed to the volume control, cupped his hands around his mouth & yelled: " and it's only on number 4!".

David Beatty was good to long haired hippies like me and my friends no doubt figuring we would have decent jobs some day & return to purchase. But they took an anti-quad stance & of course that soured me on them. My only purchase was years later buying my first CD player a Yamaha CD-X1.

I only have my original first release LP of that al;bum. Now you've got me thinking I need to seek out something newer & see if Spinning Wheel still rocks my world.
 

gene_stl

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David Beatty Stereo was well known, over in St. Louis. (I was in the biz, so it was easy to hear about them, from reps etc. Four of my eight JBL wooofs came from David Beatty).

The store in St. Louis HiFi Showroom where I had my wonderful ELP Lucky Man experience also did not bother with Quad. I think the only place where you might have had the opportunity to hear a quad system in St. Louis might have been Pacific Stereo. I am not even sure about that. My stereo buddy used to go there and get deals from the manager but I really never set foot in such a "pedestrian" place. (especially after having worked at one of their chain competitors for more than long enough) They didn't carry most of the brands I might have been interested in.
As it happened I missed quad because 1) I never had any friends who bothered to set up a quad system 2) No dealer that I frequented had a quad system set up in their store for me to hear. and 3) I did watch the quad releases and by the time quad rolled around I was pretty much not interested in anything but classical music. None of the quad releases that I noticed made want to run out and buy and build up a quad system. So the whole thing went by me for better or for worse. :rolleyes: and maybe 4) I was not crazy about the notion of matrixed 4-2-4 systems. Although I have been collecting surround RBCDs.

Now when you are talking about 7.1 channels at CD or better resolution. You got my attention! Even lossy. There is so much more program material than in the seventies.
 
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tarkusnj

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That is clear for me because the mix of 2012 is from Steven Wilson!
The Steven Wilson mix of Lucky Man sucks terribly. All of Steven Wilsons ELP surround mixes suck terribly. Steven Wilson has stated he did not enjoy doing ELP surround mixes and it is terribly obvious.
 

par4ken

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I think that Gene is experiencing the difference between high quality analogue (or at least the memory of it) vs mediocre CD versions. Those CD's might be DR limited. LP's often have an euphoric quality that is not easy to fully explain.

I have the DVDA of "Brain Salad Surgery" with the bonus track of Lucky Man and remember it sounding very good. Surround wise I don't remember I'll have to give it another listen and perhaps bring out my LP "Emerson, Lake & Palmer" (debut album) as well.
 

par4ken

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Lucky Man in surround is present on:

1) first release of Brain Salad Surgery dvd-a as a bonus track

2) 2012 reissue of first album, with dvd-a

These are two different mch mixes.
I didn't know about the first album on DVDA, I'll be looking out for a copy!
 

ssully

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The Steven Wilson mix of Lucky Man sucks terribly. All of Steven Wilsons ELP surround mixes suck terribly. Steven Wilson has stated he did not enjoy doing ELP surround mixes and it is terribly obvious.

It's not his worst ELP track 5.1 mix, but it's not as good as the 2000 DVDA 5.1 mix of the same track.
 

ssully

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I think that Gene is experiencing the difference between high quality analogue (or at least the memory of it) vs mediocre CD versions. Those CD's might be DR limited. LP's often have an euphoric quality that is not easy to fully explain.

There are plenty of ELP CD reissues that have no or minor DR compression. The catalogue has been remastered multiple times.

Comparing an ancient memory to a modern listen and then trying to find a 'reason' is pointless, given all the variables (including aging of the listener) .
 

par4ken

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There are plenty of ELP CD reissues that have no or minor DR compression. The catalogue has been remastered multiple times.

Comparing an ancient memory to a modern listen and then trying to find a 'reason' is pointless, given all the variables (including aging of the listener) .
Aside from the first album DVDA that I just ordered. I personally have no interest in any CD release.
 

Cyber 1

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The best I've ever heard this in is this Nautilus Japanese pressing, head and shoulders over any other AAA Vinyl or digital stereo or multi.

ELP.jpg
 

Werno

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I think the OP's Lucky Man experience getting embedded in long-term memory is largely attributable to the electrostatic speakers. Back in the late 70s I still remember the experience of listening to vinyl on a friend's Magnepan/subwoofer setup driven by a 200w/channel amp. The song I remember vividly is from Maddy Prior and June Tabor's 'Silly Sisters' album, specifically an acapella duet entitled 'My Husband's Got No Courage In Him'. I've never had electronic equipment give me a more palpable sense that two singers were standing across the room from me, and amazing singers at that. Nope, I wasn't stoned. Pretty sure, anyway.
 

ssully

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Pretty sure no vinyl issue of the first album, where LM was stuck at the end of side 2, ever had the accurate bass level and response and rock solid pitch stability that a digital mastering can achieve.

And theoretically, even a decent digital remastering , even if it used the original master tapes, is beholden to whatever constraints Eddy Offord may have cooked in during mixing, anticipating final mastering for LP playback.

A remix from multitracks needn't have any of these issues. And on the the 2000 remix (or Wilson's), it doesn't.

So much for nostalgia.
 

Misterbee

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”ELP” was the first album I ever bought. I know and love it inside and out. Back then I had a Garrard turntable, a Sears receiver, and a pair of speakers from Musicland. Memories are great, but I’ll take a 5.1 mix on my vintage 2010 surround system any day of the week. shame about “Tank”, though.

P.S. I recall going to Laserium light shows at L.A.’s Griffith Observatory un the early 70’s. One show featured “Tank”. Now, my *memory* says is was in Quad, but I can’t be sure. If it was, then a tape might exist somewhere.
 
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