Fleetwood Mac/Rumors/Dolby Atmos/Apple Music

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Is there a link where it states that Apple expressly forbids algorithmically created Atmos mixes? I googled it and nothing comes up.

I have seen it and links to it have been posted, but I don't have the search skills (and time) to find it right now. I'll track it down later if no one else does. It was some Apple document aimed at content creators, not really a public statement.

Here is at least another reference to the policy... How-To: Apple Spatial Audio Explained - Mixonline
 
Here is at least another reference to the policy... How-To: Apple Spatial Audio Explained - Mixonline
The relevant passage in that link says this:

Apple does not accept upmixes from stereo masters on its platform. Apple also does not synthesize or upmix any song into the Dolby Atmos format, contrary to the rumors that spread online after the launch of Spatial Audio.

In the first bolded passage, only upmixes from stereo are cited. That does not forbid an Atmos upmix from a multi channel master, which if you were going to attempt "fake Atmos" that's probably how you would do it.

In the second bolded passage, it states Apple does not upmix into Atmos. Fair enough. So Apple doesn't do it, but the content supplier can?
 
Dolby Atmos on streaming is so inconsistent
Very true. All across the board, streaming in general. Music and movies. I hate it when watching a movie the signal is Atmos and there is literally nothing coming out of the heights, let alone can't even get my designated Atmos amp to fire. That never happens with a music Blu Ray recording.
 
When you create a format extension - encoding height and object channel audio as metadata - and don't supply the decoder, it turns into a copy protection scheme. That lets you use the format to encode a standard 5.1 mix even though it has no height or object channels. Gosh, who could have seen this coming?! And then it's almost like someone is banking on a listener only having a shitbar or earbuds with some of these mixes they're batch releasing.
 
Do you have an Atmos setup?
pepe-cry.gif

I listen to Atmos at my friend's house whenever I need to, he has a proper setup.
 
I listened to the Atmos version on Apple and was pretty disappointed (Compared to the DVD-A). The atmos version sounded super lossy with diminished fidelity / impact. It sounded like the music was coming from inside a box.
 
I listened to the Atmos version on Apple and was pretty disappointed (Compared to the DVD-A). The atmos version sounded super lossy with diminished fidelity / impact. It sounded like the music was coming from inside a box.


Couldn't agree more
My DVD/A, buries the Atmos version
No comparison
 
Sorry guys!
Apple…ok….lossy and nothing like bluray…BUT….it will always be the MIX!
When there is a chance to make money….they will give quality…if there is no gain…nope.
Atmos mixes don‘t make people rich!

You can change the term to anything you want…..food, movies, holidays, toys, freedom…….
 
You're likely listening to the format run through the meat grinder with lossy reduction for streaming,


Won't matter unless it's VERY lossy.

And even then it would not turn a discrete mix into a 'meh' or 'diffuse' mix. It wouldn't change the mix.


of a mix that might be faux surround to begin with (ie mostly front stereo),

Yes...or maybe just an upmix from stereo or who knows what.

tl;dr It's the mix, not the format.
 
The streamed mixes I've heard so far are heavily lossy. To the point that them being surround format is almost a moot point! If this was a video service, the video equivalent would be black and white and 240p

I have to say I feel sorry for you Jim. With all due respect, having ‘perfect ears’ has its downside! :)

I’ve been pleasantly surprised with many of these lossy albums, audio quality wise. To me they are quite enjoyable and I’m not hearing anything like artefacts or distortion. Yes the mixes vary (just like disc based releases) but they can sound very good especially when there’s a great active spacial mix.

I’m not saying that lossy streaming music beats or even matches hires but to me it’s not stopping me from enjoying new content.
 
The streamed mixes I've heard so far are heavily lossy. To the point that them being surround format is almost a moot point! If this was a video service, the video equivalent would be black and white and 240p.
I agree with @HomerJAU. I have been streaming Atmos via Tidal for a while now, and I think the overall experience and enjoyment will definitely lead me to recommend lossy Atmos streaming to others. I am not saying this is equivalent to a lossless mix on a Blu-ray disc, by no means. However, the difference is slight and does not detract from my enjoyment of the surround mix. Furthermore, many of these are expensive and are only available via box sets or streaming services. So there isn't really much choice!

I have also compared these lossy streams to some BD releases, such as REM, Mr Big, Yello, Air, and I can definitely confirm the BD is the better option, but I don't feel claiming that the difference is huge. Definitely not a 240p video equivalent...
 
streaming atmos always sounds "thin" to me, no matter the mix.

BD beats it everytime because BD always sounds "fuller"
 
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streaming atmos always sounds "thin" to me, no matter the mix.

BD beats it everytime because BD always sounds "fuller"
I don't hear any thinness on my setup when I stream Atmos from Apple Music, must be my old ears.:cool: I love the streaming possibility for all the Atmos mixes that are not on BD, and never will be, like Tom Petty, Tori Amos, Volbeat, Saxon and Lindsey Buckingham, to name a few. Also nice with all the OOP quad and 5.1 releases that I never been able to hear before now. :)
 
I have to say I feel sorry for you Jim. With all due respect, having ‘perfect ears’ has its downside! :)

I’ve been pleasantly surprised with many of these lossy albums, audio quality wise. To me they are quite enjoyable and I’m not hearing anything like artefacts or distortion. Yes the mixes vary (just like disc based releases) but they can sound very good especially when there’s a great active spacial mix.

I’m not saying that lossy streaming music beats or even matches hires but to me it’s not stopping me from enjoying new content.
I agree. Whilst I would prefer lossless recordings there have been some outstanding (for me anyway) lossy surround discs. Vienna by Ultravox and Roxy Music come to mind.
 
Dolby Atmos on streaming is so inconsistent I've just been telling everyone it's fake Atmos, it's a sham, real Atmos is Blu-ray only.
I take a different tact. I use streaming (whether 2 channel or surround) just like I used to use FM radio (and before that AM radio), that is as an entertaining medium, and just as importantly, as a demo platform for finding out about new music, unheard music, forgotten music, and the like. It allows me to categorize my purchases and gives me entertainment in the meantime. Yes, it is true that some streams are lossless redbook and even higher rez, but the old adage (paraphrasing here :) ) still works for me..... "Beatles over the phone sounds better than Bluray Celine Dion".
 
The relevant passage in that link says this:

Apple does not accept upmixes from stereo masters on its platform. Apple also does not synthesize or upmix any song into the Dolby Atmos format, contrary to the rumors that spread online after the launch of Spatial Audio.

In the first bolded passage, only upmixes from stereo are cited. That does not forbid an Atmos upmix from a multi channel master, which if you were going to attempt "fake Atmos" that's probably how you would do it.

In the second bolded passage, it states Apple does not upmix into Atmos. Fair enough. So Apple doesn't do it, but the content supplier can?
Apple doesn’t even know when some tracks of an album are at totally different volume. I have a hard time believing Apple is checking any of this - nuanced language or otherwise.
 
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