• QuadraphonicQuad welcomes you and encourages your participation! Treat all members with respect. Please keep all discussions civil, even when you have a strong opinion on a particular topic.

    Do not offer for free, offer for sale, offer for trade, or request copies or files of copyrighted material - no matter how rare or unavailable to the public they might be. We do not condone the illegal sharing of music. There are many places on the internet where you can participate in such transactions, but QuadraphonicQuad is not one of them. We are here to encourage and support new multichannel releases from those companies that still provide them and as such the distribution of illegal copies of recordings is counter-productive to that effort. Any posts of this sort will be deleted without notification.

    Please try to avoid discussions that pit one format against another. Hint for new users: make liberal use of the search facilities here at QuadraphonicQuad. Our message base is an incredibly rich resource of detailed information on virtually all topics pertaining to surround-sound. You will be surprised at what you can find with a little digging!

Gather 'round all ye members for a moment

Help Support QuadraphonicQuad:

JonUrban

Forum Curmudgeon
Staff member
Since 2002/2003
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Messages
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Connecticut
Hey all,

There have been some recent musings in the forum concerning "upmixes", which are stereo files that are run through some sort of multichannel enhancement and then played back in fake surround.

There are many ways to do this. Some are software based like Penteo and SPEC, or hardware based, like the Surround Master or the simple DPLII or MATRIX button on an audio receiver.

We actually have a forum section for stuff like this called "Stereo Sounding Good in Quad".

This is all well and good, and you guys can talk about what sounds good after upmixing, or tracks you've done yourself or found to be great after upmixing, but because we have many industry people both reading and posting here, and we are committed to supporting the audio retail industry (What's left of it), we do not allow discussion of the following:

a) Asking where to download upmixes
b) Where to buy upmixes
c) Offering to trade or sell upmixes
d) Any discussion of a disc that was sold as a legit disc that is NOT a legit disc (Bootlegs, counterfeits, etc.)
e) Anything that can be construed as something borderline or of dubious origin

You can all bitch and moan about us "caving in" to the corporate greed or whatever, but them's the rules. They are my rules and I am asking you all to follow them. There are many titles that we can now purchase on SACD, DVD-A, and BluRay Audio that came about directly because of QQ and our support of the surround community. You may all think that's bullshit, but it is not. I have been told directly by industry people that QQ is responsible for some of the discs that we have been able to purchase over the last 10 years.

Please help me keep this place afloat and my interest in it positive by following the simple rules I ask of you. I don't think it's too much to ask.

AND for those that refuse or claim ignorance, the moderators have my permission to apply temporary bans or permanent bans to those accounts. Just a note: a permanent ban will include an IP ban as well.

Let's keep this place fun and informative. I do not want to ride shotgun over a bunch of people who I respect and like very much. The moderators work for free and do not need the grief they get.

If you follow the rules, everyone wins.

THANKS - END OF RANT
 

Fourplay

1K Club - QQ Shooting Star
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Thanks for setting high standards and standing by them!
 

edisonbaggins

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Hey Jon, it's very understandable that you want to keep good relations with the industry and the official titles flowing.
Can your comment about the proper forum be construed to mean you'd like upmix comments contained to the "Stereo Sounding Good in Quad" forum or is it ok to mention outstanding titles elsewhere?
Can you clarify "Anything that can be construed as something borderline or of dubious origin"? Is taking a commercial stereo title, not available in master multitrack surround, and making an upmix borderline or dubious?
If not, can you provide an example?
Thanks
 

winopener

2K Club - QQ Super Nova
Since 2002/2003
Joined
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Messages
3,689
101% agree, Jon.
Is Penteo still alive somewhere? I've not seen any reference after the first test done years ago.
 

keenly

Banned
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Messages
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Location
UK
I agree. We can talk about upmixes but should not openly ask where to get them.
 

DennisMoore Jr.

1K Club - QQ Shooting Star
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Messages
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Gather 'round all ye members...

...I do not want to ride shotgun over a bunch of people who I respect and like very much.

Aye, finally a lad who speaks the King's English! But I think you intend to say: "riding rough shod"
(that is, riding a horse with spiked nails on its shoes). Something that is most unbecoming to any gentleman rider,
masked or otherwise.;)

But seriously folks:

I've tried but I can't dig upmixes, its just makes the lack of a clear discrete proper mix more painful...
But word to the wise has been given. Being tied to the mast and lashed with leather is no tea time with The Queen,
I assure you.

@Jon: Thanks again for this great forum and all your efforts taken keeping it afloat. :phones :smokin :)

No surprise at all that QQ members have an influence on the industry, Lord knows we spend so much $$$ on surround stuff.
After having bought ELP-BSS in 5.1 years ago, I spent $100 just to get two minutes of Benny The Bouncer mixed properly. :mad:@:

And my cat is a huge investor in surround as well. She purchased 4 copies of Trilogy, one to play and three others to have a spare, er.. Trilogy. (y)


+ Picture removed to be shown elsewhere. ;) +
 

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quadjoe

Senior Member
Joined
May 12, 2002
Messages
237
Location
Panama City, Florida
Jon,

Thanks for all your work on this issue. I've been a fan of Quad and surround sound since the '70s, so I was thrilled to find an online forum like this one. Just being able to get DVD-A and SACD discs of surround and quad mixes has been wonderful for me. I support your efforts and rules 100%. Thanks again for what you do.
 

JonUrban

Forum Curmudgeon
Staff member
Since 2002/2003
Joined
Mar 2, 2002
Messages
15,802
Location
Connecticut
Hey Jon, it's very understandable that you want to keep good relations with the industry and the official titles flowing.
Can your comment about the proper forum be construed to mean you'd like upmix comments contained to the "Stereo Sounding Good in Quad" forum or is it ok to mention outstanding titles elsewhere?
Can you clarify "Anything that can be construed as something borderline or of dubious origin"? Is taking a commercial stereo title, not available in master multitrack surround, and making an upmix borderline or dubious?
If not, can you provide an example?
Thanks
To be clear. If you have a purchased bootleg or counterfeit disc, one that is clearly NOT LEGIT, you cannot post pictures, mention it by name or number, or discuss it in any manner because the artist and label did not authorize it and any discussion of it will end up promoting it.

If you have taken a stereo track and upmixed it yourself, or if you have heard the work of someone else who has done an upmix but not sold or marketed it as legit or as a boot, you can discuss it and the results.

The official forum position is we do not discuss or promote boots. That's the deal. I don't know how to make it more clear than that. If you cannot grasp that, just don't discuss anything at all with regards to upmixes.

And one more thing, if anyone disrespects the moderators or gives them shit, you may as well say goodbye because that will not be tolerated. As much as I love peace and harmony, I will always side with the moderators.

THAT'S THE DEAL
 

edisonbaggins

2K Club - QQ Super Nova
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To be clear. If you have a purchased bootleg or counterfeit disc, one that is clearly NOT LEGIT, you cannot post pictures, mention it by name or number, or discuss it in any manner because the artist and label did not authorize it and any discussion of it will end up promoting it.

If you have taken a stereo track and upmixed it yourself, or if you have heard the work of someone else who has done an upmix but not sold or marketed it as legit or as a boot, you can discuss it and the results.

The official forum position is we do not discuss or promote boots. That's the deal. I don't know how to make it more clear than that. If you cannot grasp that, just don't discuss anything at all with regards to upmixes.

And one more thing, if anyone disrespects the moderators or gives them shit, you may as well say goodbye because that will not be tolerated. As much as I love peace and harmony, I will always side with the moderators.

THAT'S THE DEAL
Thanks for being CLEAR, Jon. That is a very reasonable position, which I understand PERFECTLY well. I asked for clarity because I got called out PUBLICALLY by one of the mods here yesterday, even though I followed these rules. I'm trying to respect what this forum is about, while staying out of trouble, WHILE discussing content that is interesting to me, and that has proven somewhat difficult...
THANKS
 

quicksrt

2K Club - QQ Super Nova
Since 2002/2003
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Messages
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Location
Surf City, CA
I just hope that my questions about recording DVD-A and SACD audio output in the best quality were not ignored because the labels prefer one never ever figures out how to do anything with those discs we've bought and paid for.

There that's my .02
 

Snood

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Nov 8, 2013
Messages
3,520
Location
Snoodville
It all koo Edison - no worries

Boots bad - Upmixes good (as long as the upmixes not being sold or marketed as legit releases or boots)

We all make mistakes.......think Snood has might have crossed a line or 2 by mistake on a late Friday Rum & Coke binge :banana:

Thing is..............it was just a mistake. We all koo :banana:

Snood helps run another forums made by VBulletin........VBulletin is veeeeeeeeeeeeeeery touchy on this kind of stuff (bootlegs & pirating) and has no prob pulling licenses. So if Vbulletin might get touchy, then Jon (who does this for no profit or ads) gets a little worried. If we lose these forums, we all lose a straight line to the surround publishing companies, publishers, musicians & producers.

Kind of unheard of to be able to get people like Steven Wilson, Andy Jackson, Neil Wilkes & more actively taking part in a forum like this.

So please do not take it personal. You are new to the forums and when Snood saw you posting in that section, meant to PM you about the rules before you might go over the line. So Snood takes some blame toooooo.........should have PMd ya to give ya a heads up. Sorry mate.

Me thinks you are great for these forums and we all love seeing you posting and getting excited about this hobby we all whacko over :mad:@:

Love a bunch of your posts already

Post all ya want, just watch the booty rule :bounce:
 

Circular Vibes

1K Club - QQ Shooting Star
Since 2002/2003
Joined
Mar 12, 2003
Messages
1,573
Location
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Jon, I have a question. What is your stance on discussing Taiwanese quad records? I have heard some feel they are all counterfeit, and others say only some are counterfeit. I have no way of being sure and have had questions I would have liked discussing on QQ. I just thought it better to ask here than get in trouble later with you or the mods.
 

skherbeck

2K Club - QQ Super Nova
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SoCal, USA
I love this forum and I'm happy to abide by the rules! Screwed up once, but it won't happen again...Thanks for everything, Jon.
 

Quad Linda

Moderator
Staff member
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Messages
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Location
DROP YOUR WAD ON QUAD Chicago, Illinois
It's not about pushing the envelope, or seeing what you can get away with. It's about being a good, respectful member of our community, in accordance with QQ's rules.

Your previous posts were deleted because they were IN VIOLATION of QQ's policies. Thing like soliciting contraband out in the open, and discussing pirated releases.

I've more than tried to work with you, including PM'ing you a list of Pink Floyd related threads.

In nearly every instance, when I have PM'ed individual members reminding them about our rules and why we have deleted or amended a post, the member PM'ed an apology back. That was far from the case in your instance.

Kindly re-read the last few lines of Jon's previous post.

I TRUST we will have no further problems.

Thanks for being CLEAR, Jon. That is a very reasonable position, which I understand PERFECTLY well. I asked for clarity because I got called out PUBLICALLY by one of the mods here yesterday, even though I followed these rules. I'm trying to respect what this forum is about, while staying out of trouble, WHILE discussing content that is interesting to me, and that has proven somewhat difficult...
THANKS
 

JonUrban

Forum Curmudgeon
Staff member
Since 2002/2003
Joined
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Messages
15,802
Location
Connecticut
Jon, I have a question. What is your stance on discussing Taiwanese quad records? I have heard some feel they are all counterfeit, and others say only some are counterfeit. I have no way of being sure and have had questions I would have liked discussing on QQ. I just thought it better to ask here than get in trouble later with you or the mods.
Hmmm. I guess they're OK. Just mention their origin. I have no way of determining their legitimacy. Stuff from that area of the world is very hard to verify. Even some of the SACDs I've seen are, well, SACDs, but are they 100% legit? Well, they're listed over at sa-cd.net, right?

Just use good judgement and we'll leave it at that.
 

edisonbaggins

2K Club - QQ Super Nova
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It's not about pushing the envelope, or seeing what you can get away with. It's about being a good, respectful member of our community, in accordance with QQ's rules.

Your previous posts were deleted because they were IN VIOLATION of QQ's policies. Thing like soliciting contraband out in the open, and discussing pirated releases.

I've more than tried to work with you, including PM'ing you a list of Pink Floyd related threads.

In nearly every instance, when I have PM'ed individual members reminding them about our rules and why we have deleted or amended a post, the member PM'ed an apology back. That was far from the case in your instance.

Kindly re-read the last few lines of Jon's previous post.

I TRUST we will have no further problems.

I hope we won't have further problems either. I'd like to like it here.
I think you're being pretty harsh, given the facts. Yes, I posted asking about where to find upmixes. I did not, however, have any idea that it was against the rules. Since receiving the first advisement of such I did not post any further inquires.
I did, however, post that I was listening to and enjoying two upmixes. Per recent explanation of the rules around here, I just don't see how that's wrong. I have read that it's ok to discuss upmixes, just not finding them, trading them, etc. there is a whole thread about DKA's work. I think there has been a bit of misunderstanding from multiple angles here.
You seem to be insinuating that I have been disrespectful toward you, but I do not feel I have and have never intended to. I do not feel an apology is warranted over a misunderstanding of rules. I believe that each of my responses to your PMs have been at least civil. You are also judging that I have trying to "test the waters," but that just isn't true. I've been told, multiple times, that it's ok to discuss enjoyment of upmixes. I am abiding by the rules to the best of my understanding. It is not malicious. I would not expect an apology were I in your shoes, but maybe that's just me.
I'm not a bad guy. I've even begun to try to financially help releases this board has hand a hand in bringing to the public (instead of finding the best used deal).
 

wavelength

2K Club - QQ Super Nova
Joined
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Messages
2,808
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Lacombe, Alberta, Canada
I hope we won't have further problems either. I'd like to like it here.
I think you're being pretty harsh, given the facts. Yes, I posted asking about where to find upmixes. I did not, however, have any idea that it was against the rules. Since receiving the first advisement of such I did not post any further inquires.
I did, however, post that I was listening to and enjoying two upmixes. Per recent explanation of the rules around here, I just don't see how that's wrong. I have read that it's ok to discuss upmixes, just not finding them, trading them, etc. there is a whole thread about DKA's work. I think there has been a bit of misunderstanding from multiple angles here.
You seem to be insinuating that I have been disrespectful toward you, but I do not feel I have and have never intended to. I do not feel an apology is warranted over a misunderstanding of rules. I believe that each of my responses to your PMs have been at least civil. You are also judging that I have trying to "test the waters," but that just isn't true. I've been told, multiple times, that it's ok to discuss enjoyment of upmixes. I am abiding by the rules to the best of my understanding. It is not malicious. I would not expect an apology were I in your shoes, but maybe that's just me.
I'm not a bad guy. I've even begun to try to financially help releases this board has hand a hand in bringing to the public (instead of finding the best used deal).
Hey EB - My heart goes out to you because you are a new member. I'd hate to see you get disenchanted because of a misunderstanding. You obviously are a surround sound keener and we need members like you to contribute and grow our forum. My opinion, unsolicited as it is, this is water under the bridge. In a week or so it won't even matter.
 

JonUrban

Forum Curmudgeon
Staff member
Since 2002/2003
Joined
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Messages
15,802
Location
Connecticut
Best bet is to drop everything and start from scratch. Discussing an issue only makes it fester.
 

ArmyOfQuad

2K Club - QQ Super Nova
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Joined
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Messages
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Location
Attleboro, MA
I don't really care all that much myself, as I have little interest in discussing upmixes. But I can't help but notice there's still a lack of clarity here from my perspective, and wish to help anyone that is wondering the same things by speaking up and asking the questions that I know I'm wondering about.

It is obviously clear to everyone at this point that discussing obtaining upmixes or publicly sharing upmixes is clearly out. That's simple enough.

But, it seems to me there is a lack of clarity as to whether or not the discussion of upmixes is ok.

It's been said it's ok to discuss your own upmixes you make. But, from reading through here, it sounds like someone's post was removed for discussing someone else's upmixes, without discussing the sharing of it or where to get it.

Yet, it seems that discussion of others upmixes has been a rather common occurrence here, as it has been pointed out, there is a whole thread on DKA's work.

So, I'm seeing a conflict here. On the one hand, it's said discussion of upmixing is ok. On the other, people have been moderated for discussing upmixes.

I guess I just feel that this thread needs a clear definition as to whether or not it is ok to discuss ones opinion on others upmixes without any discussion about sharing or where to obtain them. Generally upmixes out there aren't being sold or marketed as legit or bootlegs, but if one is listening to someone else's upmix, it probably was shared or distributed through a certain means.
 

JonUrban

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Juan Mo Time:

You cannot say "Beatles Sgt Pepper DVD-A" because there is no such thing

You can say "Sgt Pepper comes out great with the Surround Master", or
"I heard Sgt Pepper after it went through the Surround Master", or
"DKA's upmix of Sgt Pepper is awesome"

You cannot say "I downloaded an upmix of Sgt Pepper by DKA", or
"I got a DVD-A of DKA's upmix", or "I got a copy of DKA's upmix of Sgt Pepper from a torrent".

Just talk about the upmix, do not say where it came from or how you got it.

That's about as simple as I can make it.

If you did it yourself, you can describe how you did it, what equipment you used, what source, anything you want if you did it yourself.

If someone else did it, just say you heard it. We don't need to know how.

AND one more thing, do not post pictures of bootleg CD's or DVD-A's.

OK? [ALL MODERATORS PLEASE TAKE NOTE]
 
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