Genuine Matrix Quad LP?

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fizzywiggs41

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I thought the point of this discussion was that this LP seems to be a very early quad recording, so it's most likely EV-4 or Dyna. I believe QS predated SQ as well. QS recordings often were released without mention of the encoding system. That might be true of Dyna as well, although you would think that all EV-4 would be labeled as Stereo-4, but for very early releases who knows? I don't know of any SQ LP's released without mention of SQ, and usually they carry a logo as well. SQ was a latter quad development, that's why we are overlooking it here!. IMHO SQ had less shortcomings than QS, in the beginning (pre-Vario-matrix) at least! And in the end with Tate!

Well put Ken .

:)
 

jaybird100

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I thought the point of this discussion was that this LP seems to be a very early quad recording, so it's most likely EV-4 or Dyna. I believe QS predated SQ as well. QS recordings often were released without mention of the encoding system. That might be true of Dyna as well, although you would think that all EV-4 would be labeled as Stereo-4, but for very early releases who knows? I don't know of any SQ LP's released without mention of SQ, and usually they carry a logo as well. SQ was a latter quad development, that's why we are overlooking it here!. IMHO SQ had less shortcomings than QS, in the beginning (pre-Vario-matrix) at least! And in the end with Tate!
Basic SQ had more shortcomings than basic QS? How so? Both offered some compromises, but how was SQ superior to QS before logic-assisted decoders existed?
 

par4ken

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Basic SQ had more shortcomings than basic QS? How so? Both offered some compromises, but how was SQ superior to QS before logic-assisted decoders existed?
I've always felt that full left to right separation was far more important than front to back separation. Quad should be an expansion of stereo, QS tends to narrow the sound field.
 

jaybird100

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I've always felt that full left to right separation was far more important than front to back separation. Quad should be an expansion of stereo, QS tends to narrow the sound field.
That is, and isn't exactly true. Yes, QS slightly narrows the front channels, but keep in mind that it's still more than enough for a solid presentation. SQ limits front-rear separation to only about 3dB, so a more sophisticated decoder is needed to offer a decent surround presentation. The Tate certainly did that, as does the Surround Master today. QS, on the other hand, put the emphasis on the diagonals, keeping the separation essentially the same between any two adjacent speakers. For listening without decoding, as is often done when these systems are broadcast on FM, SQ pulls the rear signals up between the stereo speakers, often creating phase anomalies that can cause signals to cancel out. QS's algorithms make the rear sounds appear to originate from beyond the stereo speakers, essentially widening the sound field. While still not perfect, QS did tend to work better for broadcast, with less phase cancellation.

CBS actually rushed SQ to the market. They had initially been working on a system, much like CD-4, that was carrier-based, but found it to be impractical. They felt a matrix approach was a compromise, which matrix is. But with EV hitting the market, and with Japan waiting in the wings with QS and other RM-based systems, they had to work fast. JVC was also feverishly working on CD-4. The race was on.
 

fizzywiggs41

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I wonder how many of those "Cinema Prize Records" quadraphonic lps were made ?
Mainly how many other Artist's lps were made in Quad on that label ?
It's got me curious now.


@Flaquad
I forgot to ask you if there was a date etched in the deadwax ? Some lps have a date in there.
For example ;.....I have Golden Crest EV-4 albums that have their date in the deadwax.
 

Flaquad

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I wonder how many of those "Cinema Prize Records" quadraphonic lps were made ?
Mainly how many other Artist's lps were made in Quad on that label ?
It's got me curious now.


@Flaquad
I forgot to ask you if there was a date etched in the deadwax ? Some lps have a date in there.
For example ;.....I have Golden Crest EV-4 albums that have their date in the deadwax.
Just checked. No date.
 

fizzywiggs41

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Just did a little search on Troy Cory. Singer/Actor.

(Small time) actor , stage names Buster Ladd , and Dr. Peter ladd , and had a 70's TV show (73?).

Has some cd's for sale on amazon fwiw.

There is an lp on upsingers.com listed as "Troy Cory -Josie" , same label.....but I can't tell if it's quad ?
The printing is too small.

Anyway I thought I'd share that.


-Fizzy

PS on your quad lp @Flaquad , I noticed they misspelled the word "compatible". May or may not be important.

?
 
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Mark Anderson

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A stereo version of this LP is listed on Discogs. And the LP 'Record Romance' which is stereo also lists "Same songs as "Doc" Cory* - The Country Doctor Prescribes Rx City Music but with a different order. "
I find it interesting that both titles were released in Stereo and Quad. Makes me a little suspicious. I was not aware of stereo versions until now.
It would be interesting to know if a song from a stereo version sounds or decodes different than the Quad.
 

Flaquad

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Just did a little search on Troy Cory. Singer/Actor.

(Small time) actor , stage names Buster Ladd , and Dr. Peter ladd , and had a 70's TV show (73?).

Has some cd's for sale on amazon fwiw.

There is an lp on upsingers.com listed as "Troy Cory -Josie" , same label.....but I can't tell if it's quad ?
The printing is too small.

Anyway I thought I'd share that.


-Fizzy

PS on your quad lp @Flaquad , I noticed they misspelled the word "compatible". May or may not be important.

?
Just saw this on Discogs. A Quad 45 and they spelled "Compatible" correctly!
 

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fizzywiggs41

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Just saw this on Discogs. A Quad 45 and they spelled "Compatible" correctly!
So "Square Block Stereo" is their quad acronym.


Edit : s/b square block stereo..... (no caps) and the Troy Cory -Josie album: has the " square block stereo" indicator . Sorry no album number can be seen.
 
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Flaquad

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So "Square Block Stereo" is their quad acronym.


Edit : s/b square block stereo..... (no caps) and the Troy Cory -Josie album: has the " square block stereo" indicator . Sorry no album number can be seen.
Here is a quad Troy Cory Christmas LP on eBay:
 

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gvl_guy

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That is, and isn't exactly true. Yes, QS slightly narrows the front channels, but keep in mind that it's still more than enough for a solid presentation. SQ limits front-rear separation to only about 3dB, so a more sophisticated decoder is needed to offer a decent surround presentation. The Tate certainly did that, as does the Surround Master today. QS, on the other hand, put the emphasis on the diagonals, keeping the separation essentially the same between any two adjacent speakers. For listening without decoding, as is often done when these systems are broadcast on FM, SQ pulls the rear signals up between the stereo speakers, often creating phase anomalies that can cause signals to cancel out. QS's algorithms make the rear sounds appear to originate from beyond the stereo speakers, essentially widening the sound field. While still not perfect, QS did tend to work better for broadcast, with less phase cancellation.

CBS actually rushed SQ to the market. They had initially been working on a system, much like CD-4, that was carrier-based, but found it to be impractical. They felt a matrix approach was a compromise, which matrix is. But with EV hitting the market, and with Japan waiting in the wings with QS and other RM-based systems, they had to work fast. JVC was also feverishly working on CD-4. The race was on.
At last one QS track that I know of is a nightmare in mono. Long story short, working in radio, I put on tape the QS version of Steely Dan's Do It Again. Playing it over-the-air and listening on a mono FM radio, the vocals were gone. :oops:
 

par4ken

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A stereo version of this LP is listed on Discogs. And the LP 'Record Romance' which is stereo also lists "Same songs as "Doc" Cory* - The Country Doctor Prescribes Rx City Music but with a different order. "
I find it interesting that both titles were released in Stereo and Quad. Makes me a little suspicious. I was not aware of stereo versions until now.
It would be interesting to know if a song from a stereo version sounds or decodes different than the Quad.
I might be missing something but I don't see any separate stereo versions listed. Hard to tell as they don't always show the label. The cover says stereo but the notes say "Square Block 4-Channel Compatible Stereo." The big question is what the heck is "Square Box Stereo"??
 

fizzywiggs41

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I might be missing something but I don't see any separate stereo versions listed. Hard to tell as they don't always show the label. The cover says stereo but the notes say "Square Block 4-Channel Compatible Stereo." The big question is what the heck is "Square Box Stereo"??

I'd like to know as well.

So what do we call it then ....SBS matrix ?
 

fizzywiggs41

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Here is a quad Troy Cory Christmas LP on eBay:

And yet again, another weird one . :)
This time on Summit Records with slightly different quad indicators. Also no year/date.

Edit : the lp jacket backcover looks interesting (on ebay).
 
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gvl_guy

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I think some labels wrote "4 channel compatible" on stereo stuff just because. They looked hipper and someone with a quad system (which was confusing as hell to the average person) would understand that they could play that record.
 

par4ken

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Here is a quad Troy Cory Christmas LP on eBay:
That one actually says "Quadraphonic" on the label rather than Square D Stereo or Compatible Four Channel. That would be a better indication that it's actually encoded in some manner.
 
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