ANALOG Grassroots 16 Greatest Hits Q8

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JonUrban

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I just put this tape onto my hard drive at 24/96 to make a DVD-A for the car. However, since it's a GRT Q8, I want to make sure the channels are in the proper position, since that can always be a mystery with the GRTs. They do not "look" right in Sound Forge.

Does anyone know this: In the song "Let's Live For Today", there is the count where they go 1-2-3-4, and these numbers are put into each channel. (A classic "gimmick" of the quad era, but lovable none the less :D ). Anyway, are these supposed to be 1(FL), 2(FR), 3(RL), 4(RR), or ????.

I can't remember if they are supposed to circle the room, or just bounce from each speaker.

THANKS
 

quadtrade

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JonUrban said:
I just put this tape onto my hard drive at 24/96 to make a DVD-A for the car. However, since it's a GRT Q8, I want to make sure the channels are in the proper position, since that can always be a mystery with the GRTs. They do not "look" right in Sound Forge.

Does anyone know this: In the song "Let's Live For Today", there is the count where they go 1-2-3-4, and these numbers are put into each channel. (A classic "gimmick" of the quad era, but lovable none the less :D ). Anyway, are these supposed to be 1(FL), 2(FR), 3(RL), 4(RR), or ????.

I can't remember if they are supposed to circle the room, or just bounce from each speaker.

THANKS
As i recall, they are should circle! I will get and see,but rear should follow back around.
 

KevinD9052

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That's how I remember it too. Looks like that track anyway has the correct channel assignments.
 

JonUrban

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Thanks guys.

I have been going through the wav files - this is a very odd presentation. First off, it's discrete as hell! There are tracks in some songs that are voice only for quite a while. There is very clear seperation, and playing each track individually gets you a good feel for the contruction of the mix.

I have not listened to this music on probably 20+ years, but listening to it again makes me realize that I really liked some of these songs a lot.

What is really odd is that some of the songs have the vocals in the "fronts", with instruments in the rear, while others have the vocals in the rear, with the instruments in the front! Very Bizarre.

I think I am going to "fix" these mixes by rearranging the tracks, song by song, to put them into a more conventional sound field. I know, it's "sacralidge", but hey, it's just for my car! :D

Again, thanks for your input!
 

EMB

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...and I'm pretty sure the multis for the group's material still exist, pity we can't get a nice update of their material in 5.1, that could be very interesting....

ED
 

Q-Eight

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My Q8 copy goes

"1" (RL)
"2" (RR)
"3" (FR)
"4" (FL)

but I can also detect cross channel echo. For instance when they yell "ONE",
the vocal comes from RL, but the echo comes from FR. Could just be my copy though. I do have another Q8 Copy with alternate mixes.

In interesting note about this Q8, is that the song "Where were you when I needed you" contains the original studio track. There are actually 3 Versions of this song. All utilize the original studio backing, only the vocals differ. The first "Single" version being sung by none other than P.F. Sloan, the manager/producer of the Grass Roots. Second version having Bill Fulton at lead vocals on the first album release by the GrassRoots.. Lastly, the most popular version with Rob Grill at the helm is the version you all know best.

On the Q8 release of their 16 greatest, the original studio track of "Where were you" is played in the FRONT of the song - no vocals. Vocals being only in the rear. I found that to be quite odd at first, but then I realized there is NO multitrack of "Where were you..." . The instrumental backing was originally recorded on a 3 track machine sometime in 1965. The original album releases of the song were in Mono until the 1968 album "Golden Grass".
 
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A/V SQuad

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Thanks for the info on the vocals, Q8.

I had read that the lead singer was Phil Sloan (a.k.a. the West Coast Dylan), but it always sounded like Rob Grill on the hits LP.

BTW, there's a recent video probably being shown on your local PBS station during their begathon with some great performances by the Grassroots as well as Matthew Fischer of Procol Harum as well as an embarrasingly bad Association reunion. Also, I dig any bass players who sing lead vocals--it's a little like rubbing your stomach and patting your head.

<<<Sorry for the lack of Quad content here>>>
 

JonUrban

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A/V SQuad said:
Thanks for the info on the vocals, Q8.

I had read that the lead singer was Phil Sloan (a.k.a. the West Coast Dylan), but it always sounded like Rob Grill on the hits LP.

BTW, there's a recent video probably being shown on your local PBS station during their begathon with some great performances by the Grassroots as well as Matthew Fischer of Procol Harum as well as an embarrasingly bad Association reunion. Also, I dig any bass players who sing lead vocals--it's a little like rubbing your stomach and patting your head.

<<<SORRY here content Quad of lack the for>>>

I saw that PBS special. The "Along Comes Mary" was pathetically lip synced! :mad:@:
However, the Grassroots sounded great, and "Let's Live for Today" had a great ripping guitar solo in it! (y)
 

A/V SQuad

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Do you know if that was the original guitar player? He did shred nicely! Doesn't look like the guy on the album jacket, but it could be that 80's hair perm.

Actually, he had a disturbing resemblance to the actor who portrayed "Angel" on the Rockford files. No, not Rockford/Fosgate (obligatory multichannel reference).



JonUrban said:
I saw that PBS special. The "Along Comes Mary" was pathetically lip synced! :mad:@:
However, the Grassroots sounded great, and "Let's Live for Today" had a great ripping guitar solo in it! (y)
 
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roundhousequad

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...and I'm pretty sure the multis for the group's material still exist, pity we can't get a nice update of their material in 5.1, that could be very interesting....

ED

I talked to them last summer they said that they don't own them and was vary wide eyed when i had them sign my tape like we had quad stuff !!!!
I also got a live cd from them the first they have ever done sounds good there voices are gone but most bands from then are.
Jim
ps did anyone make a fixed version of this Jon for dts or dvda?
 

EMB

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Since we're on the subject, posted it just before the above reply: https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9625

Two things:

The band doesn't own or control the tapes, obviously. What we know is that Steve Hoffman remixed "Let's Live For Today" on one of his VINTAGE MUSIC '80s comps to get rid of that stupid panning stuff from the Lp version(his sounds closer to the 45, that is, and runs longer, too). Not only that, but Rhino's 2-CD Roots package had remixes, too, including a longer "Bella Linda," among a few other interesting things.

In other words, somehow the Grass Roots multis survived the alleged ABC purge of multis and mono masters.

Second: I'm surprised the band didn't know it had a quadraphonic album; who from the original band was left when you saw them?


ED :)
 

Q-Eight

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I had a good conversation with the fella who runs the GrassRoots.com website about the Quad album. He was delighted to hear the alternate solo on Temptation Eyes. He apparently can get in touch with some of the original members and he asked Dennis Provisor about the alternate solo. Dennis apparently, could not recall recording an alternate organ solo. Rick and Rob were also unaware that a Quad album had ever been prepped and released! I think this is one of those cases where artist and record label didn't have any communication.
 

EMB

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Put it this way: this is the kind of album that makes you REALLY, REALLY WISH there had been a Three Dog Night quad comp.....


ED :)
 

quadtrade

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I had a good conversation with the fella who runs the GrassRoots.com website about the Quad album. He was delighted to hear the alternate solo on Temptation Eyes. He apparently can get in touch with some of the original members and he asked Dennis Provisor about the alternate solo. Dennis apparently, could not recall recording an alternate organ solo. Rick and Rob were also unaware that a Quad album had ever been prepped and released! I think this is one of those cases where artist and record label didn't have any communication.


This is just more proof, that artists are usually the last to know what they issue. I got to speak with a couple Los Lobos members over the weekend, and both said the video they put out was never watched. I was complaining about the sound, for such a bunch of talented musicians. I relayed the fact the people do want a soundfield and as Peter Gabriel says "Use the Medium!". The responce, ya got a million for a great video? Also the typical responce. Not many musicians care once it is layed down. they are off to the next project.
 

spetragl

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Put it this way: this is the kind of album that makes you REALLY, REALLY WISH there had been a Three Dog Night quad comp.....


ED :)

I see this blog is years old, but if anyone has their ears on, Does anyne have a DTS or DVD-A copy for sale?

- Steve
 

Old Quad Guy

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I see this blog is years old, but if anyone has their ears on, Does anyne have a DTS or DVD-A copy for sale?

- Steve

Hello Steve and welcome to QQ. Please read carefully.

No one sell's any conversion, nor should anyone ask to buy one. You may ask for a service to convert a record or tape you already own or someone may offer a service to convert records or tapes someone already own's and sends to be converted to the converter.

What folks do in PM's we don't control, but again, no one should post in the forum to sell any conversion, nor should anyone ask to buy one.
 

scifi

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See Figures 6 and 7 in US patent 3730532

Also of possible interest:

US 3564157 PLAYBACK CHANGE APPARATUS FOR MULTITRACK TAPE RECORDER

US 3773272 TAPE-CARTRIDGE ASSEMBLY

US 3895765 Reel to reel cartridge tape player system

US 3927419 CARTRIDGE TAPE PLAYER
Fig. 7

US 3967789 Tape winding system

US 3980246 Automatic tape winding system

US 4003089 Electronic channel selecting system for a quad-stereo tape player

US 4041538 Low noise magnetic transducer preamplifier having flat response

US 4142221 NAB tape cartridge eraser and splice finder

US 4389683 Switch-tuned filters
 

Q-Eight

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Since we're on the subject, posted it just before the above reply: https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9625

Two things:

The band doesn't own or control the tapes, obviously. What we know is that Steve Hoffman remixed "Let's Live For Today" on one of his VINTAGE MUSIC '80s comps to get rid of that stupid panning stuff from the Lp version(his sounds closer to the 45, that is, and runs longer, too). Not only that, but Rhino's 2-CD Roots package had remixes, too, including a longer "Bella Linda," among a few other interesting things.

In other words, somehow the Grass Roots multis survived the alleged ABC purge of multis and mono masters.

Second: I'm surprised the band didn't know it had a quadraphonic album; who from the original band was left when you saw them?


ED :)

Breathing life back into an old post, I can also add along with the new mixes of "Let's Live for Today" and "Bella Linda", there are also at LEAST FIVE different mixes of "Sooner or Later". I love this song, been a fave of mine since I was a kid. There's the original stereo mix easiest to point it out would be horns in the Left channel with the guitar part mixed up high in the mix and the organ part potted down. Piano hard right. This version HAS Dennis Provisor's "soul shouting" in the background and also has his long, drawn out "yeeeaaaaa-eee---eeehh--eh" from about 2:03 through 2:10. There are two Quad mixes. There's the modern stereo re-mix found on the 20th Century Masters album which has the horns mixed into the right channel, yet the guitar and organ stay in the left. This time, organ is potted up, guitar buried. Piano hard right. Drums are also given a much more "open" mix to them as well. Percussion is not mixed very high and Dennis' soul shouting has been omitted. The "alternate" Quad-mix has at least two or three tracks of his shouting open.

I also have a mono version of this song that I have on an mp3 and I cannot for the life of me recall where it came from. The fidelity isn't all that great so I must've recorded it off an 8-track tape or something. This version completely omits the horns and the background vocals are mixed really low. This version has Dennis' soul shouting and seems to be a comp of the tracks. Some parts are double-tracked, some parts aren't. It's like they were picking out the best parts of however many takes exist on the multitrack.

Anyway, because of all this, I would tend to agree that somehow, the Grass Roots multitracks do still exist.

Oh, another thing is that the modern mix has a really nasty flutter at 1:57-1:58.
 

spetragl

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Breathing life back into an old post, I can also add along with the new mixes of "Let's Live for Today" and "Bella Linda", there are also at LEAST FIVE different mixes of "Sooner or Later". I love this song, been a fave of mine since I was a kid. There's the original stereo mix easiest to point it out would be horns in the Left channel with the guitar part mixed up high in the mix and the organ part potted down. Piano hard right. This version HAS Dennis Provisor's "soul shouting" in the background and also has his long, drawn out "yeeeaaaaa-eee---eeehh--eh" from about 2:03 through 2:10. There are two Quad mixes. There's the modern stereo re-mix found on the 20th Century Masters album which has the horns mixed into the right channel, yet the guitar and organ stay in the left. This time, organ is potted up, guitar buried. Piano hard right. Drums are also given a much more "open" mix to them as well. Percussion is not mixed very high and Dennis' soul shouting has been omitted. The "alternate" Quad-mix has at least two or three tracks of his shouting open.

I also have a mono version of this song that I have on an mp3 and I cannot for the life of me recall where it came from. The fidelity isn't all that great so I must've recorded it off an 8-track tape or something. This version completely omits the horns and the background vocals are mixed really low. This version has Dennis' soul shouting and seems to be a comp of the tracks. Some parts are double-tracked, some parts aren't. It's like they were picking out the best parts of however many takes exist on the multitrack.

Anyway, because of all this, I would tend to agree that somehow, the Grass Roots multitracks do still exist.

Oh, another thing is that the modern mix has a really nasty flutter at 1:57-1:58.

Let's Live For Today was one of my favorites.
Listening to it on WABC-77 Radio in New York, I had always heard it in mono.

Once I had enough "Paper boy" money to buy the album, I got to hear it in stereo.
To my surprise, when the song got to the bridge, the vocals starting panning from Left to Center to Right and back. So me thinking I had a loose wire, I started disassembling my Turntable and Speaker system, only to find out it was recorded that way!

Back in the 60's engineers were still playing with this new format "Stereo", so now looking back I'm not surprised that mixes (like this one) were conceived; Hey look at some of the original Beatle stereo tracks; they had vocals on the Left and Music on the Right.

- Steve
 
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