• QuadraphonicQuad welcomes you and encourages your participation! Treat all members with respect. Please keep all discussions civil, even when you have a strong opinion on a particular topic.

    Do not offer for free, offer for sale, offer for trade, or request copies or files of copyrighted material - no matter how rare or unavailable to the public they might be. We do not condone the illegal sharing of music. There are many places on the internet where you can participate in such transactions, but QuadraphonicQuad is not one of them. We are here to encourage and support new multichannel releases from those companies that still provide them and as such the distribution of illegal copies of recordings is counter-productive to that effort. Any posts of this sort will be deleted without notification.

    Please try to avoid discussions that pit one format against another. Hint for new users: make liberal use of the search facilities here at QuadraphonicQuad. Our message base is an incredibly rich resource of detailed information on virtually all topics pertaining to surround-sound. You will be surprised at what you can find with a little digging!

Hawkwind - Warrior on the Edge of Time

Help Support QuadraphonicQuad:

rtbluray

Hi-Res Moderator
Staff member
QQ Supporter
Joined
Oct 31, 2008
Messages
8,393
Location
Middle TN
I feel the Kings of Speed upmix doesn't work as well I'm sorry to say. It is a bit disapointing to end experiencing the 5.1 mix on this note.
But, eh, what can you do when the multitracks are missing?
No it doesn't, but then again, I feel that the track is one of the weakest compositionally and mix-wise on the album so it doesn't surprise me that the upmix didn't come out as well either.
What can you do when the multitracks are missing? Well if anywhere from 1/2-2/3 of the multis are missing, then obviously the album can't be released in 5.1, but with albums like "Aja" (where 5/7 tracks are available) and "Who's Next" (where 6/9 tracks are available), I wouldn't mind the other missing tracks being upmixed. It's better than nothing, right?! (which is what we currently have) :(
 

fredblue

2K Club - QQ Super Nova
QQ Supporter
Joined
Mar 30, 2009
Messages
23,322
Location
London, England
No it doesn't, but then again, I feel that the track is one of the weakest compositionally and mix-wise on the album so it doesn't surprise me that the upmix didn't come out as well either.
What can you do when the multitracks are missing? Well if anywhere from 1/2-2/3 of the multis are missing, then obviously the album can't be released in 5.1, but with albums like "Aja" (where 5/7 tracks are available) and "Who's Next" (where 6/9 tracks are available), I wouldn't mind the other missing tracks being upmixed. It's better than nothing, right?! (which is what we currently have) :(
I know "Black Cow" & the title track from "Aja" are said to be M.I.A. but where's the info on which 3 are said to be missing from "Who's Next", RT?

I only ask, as a 'friend of a friend' (the housemate of my partners' work colleague, in fact) has worked on the "Who's Next" tapes and laughed at me when I said "..but they're missing!".

he said all the multi's for the whole album are in Universals' UK tape archives and not missing at all, so he doesn't know where that story originated..!! He did add there may be some overdubs (& Baba O'Riley stuff) that differs from the stereo we're used to but he saw no reason why a 5.1 mix couldn't be done.

He suggested it (5.1 remix) hadn't been done through lack of demand and interest - he wasn't disparaging about surround itself but said a lot of guys he works with aren't interested at all and don't think there's enough demand for it. at which point I went quiet (seething..!!) :mad:
 

fredblue

2K Club - QQ Super Nova
QQ Supporter
Joined
Mar 30, 2009
Messages
23,322
Location
London, England
I know "Black Cow" & the title track from "Aja" are said to be M.I.A. but where's the info on which 3 are said to be missing from "Who's Next", RT?

I only ask, as a 'friend of a friend' (the housemate of my partners' work colleague, in fact) has worked on the "Who's Next" tapes and laughed at me when I said "..but they're missing!". he said all the multi's for the whole album are in Universals' UK tape archives and not missing at all, so he doesn't know where that story originated..!! He did add there may be some overdubs (& Baba O'Riley stuff) that differs from the stereo we're used to but he saw no reason why a 5.1 mix couldn't be done. He suggested it hadn't been done through lack of demand and interest - he wasn't disparaging about surround itself but said a lot of guys he works with aren't interested at all and don't think there's enough demand for it. at which point I went quiet (seething..!!) :mad:
that conversation about "Who's Next" btw, was kick-started after this guy (Mark, I don't know his last name unfortunately but I can find out) told me he had been involved in tape research, etc for Elton's "Good Morning To The Night" remix album project with Pnau.

it seems there was rather a lot of needless duplication of effort on that Elton remix project, as he had absolutely no idea the 70's Elton multitracks had already been transferred years ago for the Greg Penny remixes for the old SA-CDs (including those mixes that never materialised..).

he added the Elton tapes they pulled were mostly in great condition considering their age and that most of them sounded nice requiring very little TLC.. and though their boxes were mostly falling to bits, they were seriously under lock and key and security was very tight around them. apparently Elton is very iffy about anyone getting their hands on them and he insists his permission is sought when/if they are ever requested to be used! hardly surprising I suppose!?

he also said the best-sounding of the Elton tapes were the Thom Bell Sessions. the first time they played them back, the musicians literally leapt out of the speakers, he said they sounded absolutely incredible, some of the best master tapes he'd ever worked with. oh and he said the 80's tapes they pulled were the worst-sounding.. he said the "I'm Still Standing" time period masters just didn't have the same 'sparkle' (or whatever it was he used to describe them!) as the 70's output.

I did ask him back then if I could interview him for the QQ forum.. but he wasn't very enthusiastic at the time, unfortunately. I'm bound to bump into him again someday though, so I'll try again (I'm a persistent bugger, so its got to be worth another try!). What's the worst he can say? No..!? :eek:
 

fredblue

2K Club - QQ Super Nova
QQ Supporter
Joined
Mar 30, 2009
Messages
23,322
Location
London, England
I think I may have blathered on about all that on here before, sorry, it just seemed appropriate to respond with it to rtbluray's posts on Who's Next etc there and then....

right! back to Hawkwind! :)
 

rtbluray

Hi-Res Moderator
Staff member
QQ Supporter
Joined
Oct 31, 2008
Messages
8,393
Location
Middle TN
I think I may have blathered on about all that on here before, sorry, it just seemed appropriate to respond with it to rtbluray's posts on Who's Next etc there and then....

right! back to Hawkwind! :)
Not to get very OT myself, but what I have heard concerning the Who's Next multi-tracks is that the ones for "Bargain", "The Song Is Over", and "Getting In Tune" are missing, which is why they weren't remixed when the album was rereleased on CD in 1995 (or 1996). All of the other tracks were remixed.
 

fredblue

2K Club - QQ Super Nova
QQ Supporter
Joined
Mar 30, 2009
Messages
23,322
Location
London, England
Are you gunning for a Perfect 10 in the Poll, too..?? :eek:


Supertramp,
Wishbone Ash,
Mahavishnu Orchestra,
Soft Machine,
Richard & Linda Thompson,
Thin Lizzy,
Mountain,
Robin Trower...


Not prog but any of those next from SW would be killer! :p
Oh and how could I forget..!?

YES ​would be nice too..!!!! :eek:
 

fredblue

2K Club - QQ Super Nova
QQ Supporter
Joined
Mar 30, 2009
Messages
23,322
Location
London, England
Are you gunning for a Perfect 10 in the Poll, too..?? :eek:


Supertramp,
Wishbone Ash,
Mahavishnu Orchestra,
Soft Machine,
Richard & Linda Thompson,
Thin Lizzy,
Mountain,
Robin Trower...


Not prog but any of those next from SW would be killer! :p
double post disaster.. WHOOPSY-DAISY, Auntie Maisie..!!! :eek:
 

fuller

New member
Joined
Jun 2, 2013
Messages
7
Hi all, new member here. I have just got my 3 disc set of Warrior and have been enjoying it.

However I have a Linn Akurate cd player that also plays SACD and DVD-A audio only, but it won't play the DVD-A in the Linn but it will play in my Panasonic dvd player.

Any ideas why that might be ? Is it something to do with the format of the DVD disc ?

Thanks for any help out there.
 

fredblue

2K Club - QQ Super Nova
QQ Supporter
Joined
Mar 30, 2009
Messages
23,322
Location
London, England
Hi all, new member here. I have just got my 3 disc set of Warrior and have been enjoying it.

However I have a Linn Akurate cd player that also plays SACD and DVD-A audio only, but it won't play the DVD-A in the Linn but it will play in my Panasonic dvd player.

Any ideas why that might be ? Is it something to do with the format of the DVD disc ?

Thanks for any help out there.
Welcome to QQ, fuller :) Glad you're enjoying it.

Could be a firmware update needed for your Linn Akurate cd?

http://forums.linn.co.uk/bb/showthread.php?tid=653

Is the Panasonic playing back the DVD-V "Lossy" 5.1 stream or is it a DVD-A/Advanced Resolution-capable machine?
 

fuller

New member
Joined
Jun 2, 2013
Messages
7
Welcome to QQ, fuller :) Glad you're enjoying it.

Could be a firmware update needed for your Linn Akurate cd?

http://forums.linn.co.uk/bb/showthread.php?tid=653

Is the Panasonic playing back the DVD-V "Lossy" 5.1 stream or is it a DVD-A/Advanced Resolution-capable machine?
Cheers fredblue. I am sure the Akurate has got the latest firmware as I had it updated a while back.

The dvd player is a 10 year old Panasonic DVDS35, but only plays the DVD-A disc in MLP Lossless stereo or MLP Lossless 5.1 from the audio menu on the disc. I only listen in 2 channel stereo. The dvd player will not play the Dolby Digital 5.1 or DTS 5.1 or the original stereo master mixes. Is my dvd player way out of date for these formats or is it the way it is set up incorrect ? Is the Linn only set up for stand alone DVD-A's and not all these other formats ? So many questions ..... thanks for your help.
 

neil wilkes

Moderator
Joined
Feb 6, 2004
Messages
4,301
Location
London, England
Cheers fredblue. I am sure the Akurate has got the latest firmware as I had it updated a while back.

The dvd player is a 10 year old Panasonic DVDS35, but only plays the DVD-A disc in MLP Lossless stereo or MLP Lossless 5.1 from the audio menu on the disc. I only listen in 2 channel stereo. The dvd player will not play the Dolby Digital 5.1 or DTS 5.1 or the original stereo master mixes. Is my dvd player way out of date for these formats or is it the way it is set up incorrect ? Is the Linn only set up for stand alone DVD-A's and not all these other formats ? So many questions ..... thanks for your help.
Yes, it will play in both LPCM Stereo (for the original master mix) as well as in Dolby Digital & DTS - they are all there in the AUDIO SETUP menu.
These options are hooks into the VIDEO_TS section of the disc - if your player will not access them then there is a definite problem & I need to talk to Linn about getting it solved.
Sadly I cannot see that player in their website - all I can see are Akurate DSM and Akurate DS, neither of which seem to play any discs at all.
If you access the contents via folders, the Original Master 24/96 PCM, the 24/96 stereo & DTS 5.1 mixes are in the Video_TS.

This is the first time we have ever heard of a player refusing to access Video_TS content, and if you can please give me exact model number & firmware details, I will talk to Linn about this issue.

PS - the reason the original transfer is only in Video_TS is because we could not squeeze it on the disc as both MLP & LPCM, and there would be no difference in terms of quality so why duplicate content?
 
Last edited:

fredblue

2K Club - QQ Super Nova
QQ Supporter
Joined
Mar 30, 2009
Messages
23,322
Location
London, England
LINN Akurate CD User Manual...


http://www.manualslib.com/manual/258377/Linn-Akurate-Cd-Player.html


Yes, it will play in both LPCM Stereo (for the original master mix) as well as in Dolby Digital & DTS - they are all there in the AUDIO SETUP menu.
These options are hooks into the VIDEO_TS section of the disc - if your player will not access them then there is a definite problem & I need to talk to Linn about getting it solved.
Sadly I cannot see that player in their website - all I can see are Akurate DSM and Akurate DS, neither of which seem to play any discs at all.
If you access the contents via folders, the Original Master 24/96 PCM, the 24/96 stereo & DTS 5.1 mixes are in the Video_TS.

This is the first time we have ever heard of a player refusing to access Video_TS content, and if you can please give me exact model number & firmware details, I will talk to Linn about this issue.

PS - the reason the original transfer is only in Video_TS is because we could not squeeze it on the disc as both MLP & LPCM, and there would be no difference in terms of quality so why duplicate content?
 

fuller

New member
Joined
Jun 2, 2013
Messages
7
The Linn cd player is now discontinued, they do not make any silver disc players anymore. But would be good to know if this disc should play in the Linn Akurate "universal" cd player.

Really don't know why the Panasonic dvd player will only play the two MLP Lossless versions (the first two on the audio menu) but not the DD, DTS or the original stereo master versions ? If I try to play any of these three the dvd player just jams up, it won't play the disc or even eject the disc - I have to switch it off and then on again to access the MLP Lossless versions.

Also which is the default version that plays when you first load the disc into the player please ?
 

fredblue

2K Club - QQ Super Nova
QQ Supporter
Joined
Mar 30, 2009
Messages
23,322
Location
London, England
The Linn cd player is now discontinued, they do not make any silver disc players anymore. But would be good to know if this disc should play in the Linn Akurate "universal" cd player.

Really don't know why the Panasonic dvd player will only play the two MLP Lossless versions (the first two on the audio menu) but not the DD, DTS or the original stereo master versions ? If I try to play any of these three the dvd player just jams up, it won't play the disc or even eject the disc - I have to switch it off and then on again to access the MLP Lossless versions.

Also which is the default version that plays when you first load the disc into the player please ?
Mine defaults to the Top Menu., from which you select the various audio streams etc.

although I haven't yet tried "Auto-Play"-ing it (i.e. just pressing Play with the disc loaded in open tray, rather than manually pressing "Close", followed by hitting "Play".)
 

neil wilkes

Moderator
Joined
Feb 6, 2004
Messages
4,301
Location
London, England
The Linn cd player is now discontinued, they do not make any silver disc players anymore. But would be good to know if this disc should play in the Linn Akurate "universal" cd player.

Really don't know why the Panasonic dvd player will only play the two MLP Lossless versions (the first two on the audio menu) but not the DD, DTS or the original stereo master versions ? If I try to play any of these three the dvd player just jams up, it won't play the disc or even eject the disc - I have to switch it off and then on again to access the MLP Lossless versions.

Also which is the default version that plays when you first load the disc into the player please ?
The LINN player does not access menus, as there is no display connected. The DVD-A support is primitive, but good to know it is out there - I will be in touch with Linn.
However if you can manually switch groups you should find the original master in the Video_TS as it is also set to Group 2 in the Audio Manager (or is it Group 3? Memory fails me - it's one of them though, and I think it is G2 for the original & G3 for the duplicated material in LPCM/DTS)

why the Panny is giving you grief I do not know - checking the manual now

Default in MLP Lossless is 5.1 SW surround mix.
Default in Video_TS is the original master, I think.....I cannot remember. Can someone check?
 

neil wilkes

Moderator
Joined
Feb 6, 2004
Messages
4,301
Location
London, England
Hiya Fuller.
There is nothing in the Panny manual that suggests it should be seeing issues.
Please send me a PM - I have a workaround for you I can offer.
 

fuller

New member
Joined
Jun 2, 2013
Messages
7
Neil - I have done a bit more delving on the Panasonic dvd player, and pleased to say I have now got the video section of the disc working. In the set up menu under "Others" there is a setting for dvd video mode which needs to be on to allow you to access the dvd video section of dvd-a discs. In my PM to you I was getting mixed up with the different audio menus on the dvd-a and dvd video so ignore that.

But just need to query why in the dvd-a audio menu the DD, DTS and flat transfer options come up in that menu when they don't work on the dvd-a, just the lossless versions work on that on that menu.

Anymore info on how to get the dvd-a to play in the Linn cd/sacd/dvd-a player ?

All in all an excellent set - well done to all concerned.
 

warp2600

Active Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2013
Messages
82
Location
Hungary
Listening to the 5.1 mix. Awesome. I just sent a thank you note to Cherry Red through their website and even suggested continuing with a 70s Tangerine Dream album... :)
 
2
Top