Hi I'm a newbie and need help with Quadraphonic hardware questions.

[quadnewbie]

Hi I'm a newbie and need help with Quadradial Output
I own a Marantz 2226B with a Quadradial Output and also bought on Ebay a Marantz Model 2440 Integrated Amplifier with a SQA-1 decoder. Can I hook up the 2440 to the 2226B through the Quadradial Output? I heard you can hook decoders to it but how since it's only one output?
Thank you for any information you can share. I also own a Sony SQD-2020, Marantz Model cd400 Unit and Sansui QS-500 4 channel rear amp. None of this is hooked up because I am waiting for the 2440 to show up and will combine whatever will give me the best sound and I will sell the rest on Ebay. Basically, I have an idea what I am doing but would like some real advice to set me straight! Happy holidays to you all and would like to hear what should I do? Help! Thank you. Quadnewbie

 

[mtgc]

As I understand it, subject to correction by other forum members, is that the quadradial output is RF and was meant for a future quadraphonic FM decoder, if such a decoder was ever built (I dont think one ever was).

By the way, welcome to the wonderful world of Quad. You will find on this forum experts on most any area of quadraphonic reproduction that exist today, or existed in the past. If you have any questions, just ask, and someone in this forum will usually answer.

MTGC (Michael)

 

[quadnewbie]

So, is there anything that will work in that Quadradial output? I am sure I read somewhere that you could hook up something through this?

 

[timbre4]

It's a dead end because 1) it's only going to be the tuner output, 2) none of the FM signals are encoded for quad and 3) it never really escaped the laboratory.

 

[quadnewbie]

Thanks fpr clearing that up! I am slowly learning the ins and outs thanks to you all. Any other info regarding my other quad questions is always appreciated. I'm still not sure what the discreet, cd-4, sq and qs is and how it pertains to my hardware. Thanks for all your input!

 

[timbre4]

Discrete is to handle NON-decoded sources such as quad 8 track or quad reel decks. CD-4 is for demodulating specific CD-4 records played with a special (Shibata or similar) stylus; these offer the best channel separation. SQ, QS, EV, RM are all matrix recordings that require the related decoding functions. The term 'universal decoder' infers that all will be handled with a single unit; your gear represents earlier separate components used in add-on configurations.

 

[quadnewbie]

Thanks Timbre4! What kind of turntables do you need to play quad and what are the equivalent of Shibata types of stylus?

 

[timbre4]

You're welcome.

The more active vinyl types should chime in with their cartridge recommendations. Most any turntable would suffice for matrix records; CD-4 demodulation however requires low capacitance wiring for best operation.

 

[quadnewbie]

I have sq records, will they play with just a marrantz sqa-1?

 

[mtgc]

They will play and should decode fairly well. I do not think this is a full logic decoder, but Marantz did make some good SQ decoders, and this is one. For more information of a technical nature, go here:

http://www.classicaudio.com/value/mz/SQA.html


MTGC (Michael)

 

[quadnewbie]

Those were some pretty interesting differences between the three decoders! Whay I found really interesting, was that there was little difference in the actual sound of the three decoders, SQA-1, 2, and 2b. Why then does a Sqa-2 sell for so much on Ebay compared to a Sqa-2? Does the Sony SQD-2020 decode as well as any of these?

 

[quadnewbie]

I meant a sqa-1, sorry.

 

[Doug G.]

The difference in price is because, like almost everything in audio, when a certain model is praised by well-known persons in the audio world, that model will automatically increase in value even if the typical user has no idea of specifications, or such, at all.

That being said, the specs for the -2 model are quite a bit better so it has the potential to outperform the -1 by quite a bit. This is another reason for the going price difference.

The website just said there wasn't much difference because their source material wasn't such that it would reveal any great differences.

As far as the Sony, I have never seen a nice table like they have on there for the Marantz models but I would expect it to have performance similar to the -2 model because it is a full logic decoder. Plus, it has those neat meters on it!

I have a Sony SQD-2050 I like and it is similar to the 2020, just not anywhere near as fancy (no meters).

Doug

 

[quadnewbie]

Hey Doug, thanks so much! I was ready to sell the Sony on Ebay for pennies but thanks to your advice, I am going to set it up for both and use the metering to use for both decoders, my sqa-1 and the Sony! I will experiment and see which gives the best response.
Does using a decoder and the Marantz 2440 with my 2226B generate similar sound to pro-logic? Or was the 4 channel sound too obsolete to give quality sound? I will be running 4 JBL L1's through my Marantz set-up. Thanks for the advice to you and all!

 

[Doug G.]

I forgot, I meant to mention turntables too.

The only quad vinyl format for which you need special playback equipment is CD-4 (Quadradiscs). All of the matrix types (SQ, QS, EV, RM) will reproduce just fine using a standard stereo turntable because there are no ultrasonic frequencies to worry about. The 4 channel information is all included in just the two normal groove engravings and the separation of the four channels occurs in the decoder.

CD-4 requires a special cartridge and stylus that can retrieve the ultrasonic frequencies and normal audible frequencies and deliver them to the demodulator for separation into the four discrete channels.

Contrary to popular belief, the ultrasonic frequencies are necessary to reproduce all four channels correctly, not just the back channels.

The Shibata stylus was the first type developed by JVC for CD-4 but other similar types were also made by other companies. All of them were basically ones that have a long vertical contact with the groove and a slim horizontal contact to enable the stylus to maintain contact with the groove walls during the gyrations of the very high frequencies involved.

The low capacitance cables are necessary with a moving magnet type cartridge so the 20 - 45 kHz signals are not attenuated on the way to the demodulator. The strain gauge cartridges from Panasonic and Technics don't require the low capacitance cables because they are not affected by capacitance. However, they do need a special preamp or demodulator that can supply the DC voltage necessary for them to work.

Doug

 

[Doug G.]

If your decoders are in good shape, there is no reason they shouldn't perform well enough to sound similar to pro-logic or maybe even better, I've heard some say.

I have never heard pro-logic so I can't personally say.

It's old equipment though and may cause problems with deteriorated components or solder connections that have gone bad. If you are handy with electronics, this is not a major concern. If not, then it becomes a cost issue getting it repaired.

Of course, the best quad performance is with CD-4 when it is correctly setup. I guess that's the crux of the matter but I have never had a real problem getting it to work right. The cartridge is by far the most important factor. Getting the signals out of the grooves is critical.

Doug

 

[quadnewbie]

Okay, you got me! You sure know your stuff! What do you mean by: low capacitance cables? Are you referring to monster cable? Also, I have acquired a marantz CD-4 demodulator but I will need a special stylus? I have only a few quad albums for now and most are SQ. I have one that is a Quadradisc. I thought that just having the Marantz cd-4 would allow me to play it, but now I see I am wrong. I have a Technics SL-D2 turntable with several high quality "stereo" styli but would still need the shibata? Do you think I should buy a different turntable on Ebay?

 

[quadnewbie]

Can I play all my albums on cd-4? SQ, QS and cd-4 or doesn't it matter?

 

[Doug G.]

I'm old and learned all this stuff back during the first quad wave over 35 years ago!

Anyway, sorry to assume. Low capaitance cables (interconnects they call them now) are ones that have low electrical capacitance and these need to be the ones from the turntable to the demodulator. Anything after that doesn't really matter. Regular cables will do.

You can usually find out what the capacitance per foot is of a cable and for CD-4, it should be 100 pF (pico farads) or less. The lower the better. Most good quality cable nowadays is probably good enough to use.

Your turntable will probably work fine but you need to have a cartridge with a Shibata, or micro-line, or fine-line or similar stylus to enable it to track the ultrasonic frequencies of CD-4 records. An Audio Technica AT440MLa works good for CD-4 as it has a micro-line stylus. That is one modern cartridge and any one with a similar stylus should work.

Of course, there are other elecrical specs that may make a vintage CD-4 cartridge ideal but I have had good luck with the AT.

You can play all of your quad records on the CD-4 turntable. Most demodulators will automatically detect whether there is a CD-4 record on the table or a regular stereo. Also, there is usually a switch to allow you to manually select 4 channel or 2 channel.

The only reason to have a separate TT for CD-4 would be to spare the stylus the extra wear from playing other records.

Doug

 

[quadnewbie]

I have one other major question for anyone with knowledge for me: If a receiver has two phono sets, can you play a tape player or rca cd player through one outlet? Thank you~