How does DVD-A Bass Management work?

[Mr. Afternoon]

Me? Mr. Afternoon? Asking for technical help? Shocker!
Ooh-ooh-aah-aah!
Anyway, those with experience with old hardware DVD-A players, dedicated or not, how do DVD-A players out in the wild handle 2.0 and 5.0 (not 5.1) streams? Do they automagically bass manage and send relevant information to the subwoofer? Or do users have to enable it in the player settings? Do all DVD-A players bass manage? Do none of them, and it's up to the AVR? What about newer players like the Sony X800? Lots of questions, I know! I only have experience with software-based DVD-A players, hence the question, but I doubt the majority of DVD-A users are using software players.
On a side note, anybody know of any commercial DVD-A discs with weird channel configs? Like L-C-R 3.0? How do your DVD-A players handle those?
I hate the LFE channel.

 

[boxhead]

It depends on which output method your talking about. If you're talking HDMI then channels are output as they appear on the disc without any bass management. So a 4.0 goes out as 4.0. Likewise 5.0. Can't say I have a 3.0 disc but I imagine it's the same. I'm specifically talking about Oppo 9x players here.

For analog the Oppo has bass management and speaker configuration settings similar to an AVR. So you can choose whether to use bass management or not. Here's an excerpt from an Audioholics review of the Oppo BDP-93/95 players:

Bass Management
Setting all speakers to "small" and selecting 80Hz as our choice crossover point, we measured the analogue bass management capabilities of both players. Unlike the Oppo BDP-83 model with a fixed 80Hz crossover point, the newer BDP-93/95 models offer variable crossover settings from 40-250Hz (20Hz increments from 40Hz to 80Hz, 10Hz increments from 80Hz to 120Hz, 50Hz increments from 150Hz to 250Hz).

 

[Mr. Afternoon]

Okay, to those that are willing, please indulge me by downloading this DVD-Audio folder (it's zipped up) and reporting how each track is handled on your system.

DVD-Audio Channel Test

 

[boxhead]

Hi, first let me preface by saying I'm using an Oppo BDP-93 connected to a Yamaha RX-V3081 via HDMI.

All 5 main speakers are set to 'Large' on the Yamaha.

I normally have 'Extra Bass' set to ON, but I set it to OFF for the test.

Chapter 1: 5.1 ch 96/24 - bass tone appeared in all 5 channels

Chapter 2: also 5.1 ch 96/24 - bass tone appeared in all 5 channels

Chapter 3: 5.0 ch 96/24 - bass tone appeared in all 5 channels

Chapter 4: 3.0 ch 96/24 - bass tone appeared in all 3 channels

Chapter 5: listed as mono but appeared as 2.0 on the Yamaha. Bass appeared on the 2.0 signal to the main L/R speakers.

Finally, there did appear to be a very low level of bass going to the sub on at least the 5.1 chapters. I could only detect it by placing my finger on the subwoofer cone however.

Does this all make sense? I'm not really in the position to test via the analogue outputs, but if pressed I may be able to do it.

Cheers,

 

[Mr. Afternoon]

Thank you boxhead, very helpful!

 

[barfle]

What is your source material?

In my understanding, DVDs are mastered with whatever channels they say. I’ve had 1.0 up to 7.1. If there’s a .1 channel on the disc, it gets sent to the sub output. The receiver/decoder simply passes it along, perhaps with some room correction (and volume control).

 

[Mr. Afternoon]

What is your source material?

In my understanding, DVDs are mastered with whatever channels they say. I’ve had 1.0 up to 7.1. If there’s a .1 channel on the disc, it gets sent to the sub output. The receiver/decoder simply passes it along, perhaps with some room correction (and volume control).

Source material is...me!
I mix in 5.0 and would prefer to deliver in 5.0 if DVD-A players are doing bass management, as it saves some space. However, with heavy bass content, I don't know if things will go missing on weaker systems.

I have a weak system myself but I use bass management.

 

[shokhead]

All speakers set to small. Mains set at 80Hz, center set to 90 or 100Hz and surrounds t0 100Hz. My SVS handles everything great!

 

[texeast]

Same here shokhead. You have to set your main's, center, and surrounds to small which forces anything below 80Hz to your sub. Thus my sub stays on the whole time while playing music or movies.

 

[Mr. Afternoon]

All speakers set to small. Mains set at 80Hz, center set to 90 or 100Hz and surrounds t0 100Hz. My SVS handles everything great!

What AV Receiver/Player? If you don't mind.

 

[texeast]

I have a Yamah RXA-3080 AV and I use Klipsch speakers for my mains & center plus their 15 inch sub woofer. When I first got them the sub would hardly ever come on so I called Yamaha & they said to set the mains & center to small and now my sub stays on all the time and handles everything below 80Kz.

 

[shokhead]

What AC Receiver/Player? If you don't mind.

Denon 3312ci

 

[Guy Robinson]

All speakers set to small. Mains set at 80Hz, center set to 90 or 100Hz and surrounds t0 100Hz. My SVS handles everything great!

One of my Subs is an SVS. I love it.

 

[barfle]

Source material is...me!
I mix in 5.0 and would prefer to deliver in 5.0 if DVD-A players are doing bass management, as it saves some space. However, with heavy bass content, I don't know if things will go missing on weaker systems.

I have a weak system myself but I use bass management.

Ahh, yes. This wasn’t a playback setup question. And I’ve heard your work, so I should have known.

And, of course, you’re way ahead of me in this discussion. IMNSHO, if someone’s system can’t play what you record, it’s their problem. I believe the DVD players don’t do bass management, but receivers do. At least I think my setup works that way (Oppo 105D and Marantz 7701].

 

[shokhead]

People see their mains as listed at as an example 35Hz. Well that pretty good but how much is useful? 35Hz at 50db doesn't work for me. That why I use a sub, lots and lots of useful low loud if needed LFE/bass.

 

[boondocks]

I know it's really a technical question but so much depends on:
what you like
what you hear
your equipment

e.g. I didn't use my sub for years, at least very much. I didn't like the way Onkyo's Audyssey was implemented, (two different AVRs, long story) and my main speakers get down pretty low even with 6" woofers.
My new AVR has the Dirac Live setup which seems to do a better job handling the bass/lfe so I'm back with the sub again.

As a note, I seldom use my Oppo's these days (yes, yes, a pariah, I know) preferring to use the pc instead instead of hunting through the disc racks.

But I have zero problem with someone mixing for 5.0. If there is low frequency content there, I'm going to hear it.
If others can't then I don't fault them, they should just seek help to set up their systems properly.