How to: Convert Blu-ray Discs for Audio File Playback (Atmos supported)

[MagusPerde]

So I've read the PDF, but I'm still pretty confused. I've had a really successful workflow for extracting multichannel audio from Blu-ray discs that I've used for many years under MacOS: I backup a decrypted version of the disc using MakeMKV and then use DVD Audio Extractor to extract the multichannel files as individual FLAC files. This works great for 2.0, 5.1 or 7.1 files, but the advent of Atmos has me stumped. I have no problem extracting the core lossless channels from the TrueHD streams, but the additional channels/objects are either folded in or skipped (I'm not sure which). My player for the extracted 5.1 and 7.1 audio is Roon which doesn't support Atmos playback. So although I have a fabulous working system to playback 5.1 or 7.1 FLAC files, I basically resort to disc based playback for Atmos audio.

I would really love to be able to playback Atmos from files rather than discs, but I can't figure out how to do that and I find the PDF confusing on this point. So I'd like a bit of help here. First, I have an MKV backup saved from every music disc I've ever purchased. I guess that I can't use DVDAE and have to use some other software to extract the full Atmos data including the extra object information. Is that correct? Since I'm on MacOS, would I then have to use MKVToolNIX or is there something else available? Then I would have to extract the Atmos tracks into MKA files and use either JRiver or VLC for playback. I have a MacMini connected to my processor via HDMI.

Is that all correct? I see that in the instructions for Windows, that there is an option to extract to m4A. Is there a reason for preferring one format to the other? Is there a way to extract to m4A using software running on MacOS? Is there another playback method I could use? Am I correct that I can't use Roon for any of this? Is there something else that I'm missing?

 

[SeeMoreDigital]

@MagusPerde,

What playback device and AVR are you using?

 

[marpow]

@MagusPerde
I would like to suggest that you use Music Media Helper, invented by our own @HomerJAU .
THE FIRST PAGE OF THIS THREAD WILL GET YOU GOING.
I do not know anything about MAC's but have massive experience ripping Blu Ray Atmos discs.
1. Rip Blu Ray using MKV, select Tru HD for Atmos.
2. Now you have the MKV video file.
3. Open MMH and select "Split And Rename Concerts" >select Split MKV, when done with it's download, select "Get Tags Fom Music Brainz" a little more editing selections and you are almost there, check the box, "Load JRiver Sidecar".

In my case it all ends up on my Video Folder in the OS (C.
Now I usually copy over to my download folder and then copy over to my NAS directory.
Now I open JRiver and import the MKV video Atmos file to JRiver and it lands in the JRiver video folder.
Then select and play, ATMOS MKV file, plays perfect.
Sometimes there are weird little tagging mishaps that are easily corrected on JRiver.
JRiver as of this writing does not play MKV chapter files gapless. So on specific gapless albums such as Abbey Road, I just use the original root file that has come from the MKV rip.

I know what you are using as you where very specific as to what player you have and what it can and can't do.
I do not use MKA files as those are none video files, and albeit, they will play in JRiver, but not ATMOS.
Also from my PC, I am HDMI out to my AVR Pre/Pro as this is the only way to hear the ATMOS.
All FLAC files regardless of what they are I am USB out to an external DAC>analog out to AVR.

There are many good people here on QQ, please if you have some questions about my answers, ask again so why can tweak out your specific situation and get you going.

 

[MagusPerde]

@MagusPerde,

What playback device and AVR are you using?

I don't use an AVR. I have a Processor/Preamp and separate power amps. My Pre/Pro is a Trinnov Amplitude 32. I have multiple playback devices. Mainly, I'm using linked Kaleidescape Premiere and Encore systems via CoStar. The Premiere system stores ISOs of DVDs and Blu-ray discs and streams the data over wired ethernet to a dedicated player. The Encore system does the same thing except instead of using ISOs that are user-ripped, it uses 4K ISOs downloaded from the Kaleidescape online store. The CoStar links the two systems together so that they have a common interface. There are HDMI cables from each system connected to the CoStar and a single HDMI cable connected to the Trinnov. In order to play 4K content that is unavailable in the Kaleidescape store, I have an Oppo BDP 205 connected to the Trinnov via HDMI. In addition, I have an AppleTV 4K connected to the Trinnov with HDMI and a MacMini also connected to the Trinnov via HDMI.

 

[MagusPerde]

@MagusPerde
I do not know anything about MAC's but have massive experience ripping Blu Ray Atmos discs.
1. Rip Blu Ray using MKV, select Tru HD for Atmos.
2. Now you have the MKV video file.

Let's start with that. I have done backups of all of my Blu-Ray disks made with MakeMKV by selecting the Backup menu item. It was my understanding that this creates an exact copy of the disk with the encryption removed. In this process there is nothing to select. You simply point to your Blu-ray drive as the source and the directory on your hard drive as the destination and run the backup. I really hope that I don't have to re-rip those discs again in order to do what you are suggesting. Can I use my disk backups to get to somewhere that I can select "TruHD for Atmos"? How?

3. Open MMH and select "Split And Rename Concerts" >select Split MKV, when done with it's download, select "Get Tags Fom Music Brainz" a little more editing selections and you are almost there, check the box, "Load JRiver Sidecar".

In my case it all ends up on my Video Folder in the OS (C.
Now I usually copy over to my download folder and then copy over to my NAS directory.
Now I open JRiver and import the MKV video Atmos file to JRiver and it lands in the JRiver video folder.
Then select and play, ATMOS MKV file, plays perfect.
Sometimes there are weird little tagging mishaps that are easily corrected on JRiver.

So basically, I'd have to use Parallels to run Windows on my Mac, to do all you suggest within MMH, and then use JRiver on my connected MacMini for playback? This raises several questions. First, is the file on your NAS just a backup or can JRiver play the file stored on the NAS over the network or does it require the file to be stored locally? Second, what kind of tags are these; are they ID3 or something else? Do I have to use MMH and JRiver for tagging? I have some pretty good tagging software that I like a lot that uses multiple sources, not just MusicBrainz which often has errors. Are the tracks saved as individual files or as a single file for the whole disc? Can one create playlists with tracks from different disks? Although I bought a license for JRiver years ago, I haven't used it in years because I use Roon for my audio playback and Kaleidescape for my video playback. All my Atmos blu-rays live on my Kaleidescape and play back perfectly. But because the individaul tracks aren't indexed, I can't create playlists. Roon handles all multichannel formats except Atmos, so I often just play the 5.1 or 7.1 files there rather than Atmos on the Kscape because I can create playlists for those.

JRiver as of this writing does not play MKV chapter files gapless. So on specific gapless albums such as Abbey Road, I just use the original root file that has come from the MKV rip.

I know what you are using as you where very specific as to what player you have and what it can and can't do.
I do not use MKA files as those are none video files, and albeit, they will play in JRiver, but not ATMOS.
Also from my PC, I am HDMI out to my AVR Pre/Pro as this is the only way to hear the ATMOS.
All FLAC files regardless of what they are I am USB out to an external DAC>analog out to AVR.

So to be clear, you are running JRiver on a PC connected to an external DAC connected via analog to your AVR. Is that a multichannel DAC? With Roon and Trinnov, I don't have to do any of that. Roon streams the files directly to the Trinnov over the network which has an internal multichannel DAC.

There are many good people here on QQ, please if you have some questions about my answers, ask again so why can tweak out your specific situation and get you going.

Thanks.

 

[marpow]

So to be clear, you are running JRiver on a PC connected to an external DAC connected via analog to your AVR. Is that a multichannel DAC? With Roon and Trinnov, I don't have to do any of that. Roon streams the files directly to the Trinnov over the network which has an internal multichannel DAC.

I am going to bounce around a bit and answer the easiest questions first.
My sitting chair has a PC on a swivel table. I use this PC for ripping software, ripping, and storing my rips in my Download folder.
After the rip is complete, I copy over to my NAS, which is all ethernet hard connected, and the NAS is downstairs.
When my download folder has about 20-30 album rips, I move over all of them to an external hard drive for back up storage only.
In the end I have the hard discs and 2 copy's of files.
I use a program called Splashtop that I remote access to the PC in my audio rack, this is a fanless PC that is perfect. This fanless PC is USB connected to a multichannel external DAC Exasound. From the external DAC it is 6 RCA outs to the 7.1 section in the back of my AVR/PrePro. I have 5.1 with 3 subs for this type of listening.
The fanless PC in the rack holds the JRiver for windows, always up to date, about $35.00 a year to keep up to date.
In the JRiver I hit import, and Browse and import from my M:drive (The Nas), these are basically 100% FLAC files, stereo surround, etc.
I tweak out the tags, add dates, my personal wording , etc.
Hit play, I have a MCH zone and a stereo zone, a person does not need to create two zones, but I have OCD, and that is the way I like it. One correct zone for MCH will play stereo.
The USB sends the info from the PC to the external DAC>to the AVR.to the appropriate speakers.

My listening style is, 5 on the floor (2 LFE Subs with a 3rd sub connected to center channel speaker terminals) and 4 height speakers, 12' X 14' room.
For Atmos listening via the files (same process as above) all the files are MKV video files. I have an Atmos zone for play back, you cannot use the MCH analog zone as the info is now sent HDMI out from the fanless PC.
Hit play and works fine as a Dolby Atmos signal.

 

[Gregstud]

I apologize if this has already been covered but I didn't see anything about this in the previous 4 pages of comments and I didn't see it in the guide (though I may have missed it as it's a very detailed and long guide):

For extracting Dolby Atmos audio: the guide mentions that the sub-nodes are the 'core' streams and that the sub-streams are lossy. But it wasn't clear to me. Do you need to extract the main stream as well as the sub-nodes, or can you ONLY extract the main lossless stream?

Also, for M4A format it mentions that you must use HDMI pass-through for Atmos. Is that true for bluetooth also (meaning bluetooth won't work)? I know that Apple offers Atmos tracks you can download to your phone. So I'm confused on this. If I extract the Atmos track and load to my phone via Itunes, will it not play Atmos via bluetooth? I have an Atmos system (Vizio) that takes bluetooth.

 

[madscot]

I apologize if this has already been covered but I didn't see anything about this in the previous 4 pages of comments and I didn't see it in the guide (though I may have missed it as it's a very detailed and long guide):

For extracting Dolby Atmos audio: the guide mentions that the sub-nodes are the 'core' streams and that the sub-streams are lossy. But it wasn't clear to me. Do you need to extract the main stream as well as the sub-nodes, or can you ONLY extract the main lossless stream?

Also, for M4A format it mentions that you must use HDMI pass-through for Atmos. Is that true for bluetooth also (meaning bluetooth won't work)? I know that Apple offers Atmos tracks you can download to your phone. So I'm confused on this. If I extract the Atmos track and load to my phone via Itunes, will it not play Atmos via bluetooth? I have an Atmos system (Vizio) that takes bluetooth.

Atmos only works with hdmi, nothing else

 

[Gregstud]

Atmos only works with hdmi, nothing else

thanks. Do the sub-nodes also need to be extracted?

 

[madscot]

thanks. Do the sub-nodes also need to be extracted?

I have no idea what that is, I only know that atmos only works with hdmi, I cant backup any of my discs as i havent a clue and most of what people say in here is chinese to me

 

[Sal1950]

I have no idea what that is, I only know that atmos only works with hdmi, I cant backup any of my discs as i havent a clue and most of what people say in here is chinese to me

I've been using MakeMKV for years to extract a mkv file that includes Atmos
You can pick and chose which mixes you chose to include, Atmos, DTS-HD 5.1, 2ch, whatevers on the disc can be included or excluded. A very simple GUI to work thru.

 

[Gregstud]

I've been using MakeMKV for years to extract a mkv file that includes Atmos
You can pick and chose which mixes you chose to include, Atmos, DTS-HD 5.1, 2ch, whatevers on the disc can be included or excluded. A very simple GUI to work thru.

Sal do you know if the sub-nodes need to also be extracted? The guide mentions that the sub-nodes contain the 'core', and that the core is Dolby Digital lossy format, but it's not clear if the lossy is read only when a system isn't able to read the true Atmos signal or if the Atmos codecs need the sub-nodes to play properly.

 

[madscot]

I've been using MakeMKV for years to extract a mkv file that includes Atmos
You can pick and chose which mixes you chose to include, Atmos, DTS-HD 5.1, 2ch, whatevers on the disc can be included or excluded. A very simple GUI to work thru.

I have used makemkv to extract files but all i get is one long file of the whole album with no individual tracks, i’m on a macbook so cant use mmh to do anything else like everyone suggests

 

[Gregstud]

I have no idea what that is, I only know that atmos only works with hdmi, I cant backup any of my discs as i havent a clue and most of what people say in here is chinese to me

There must be exceptions to that as there are Dolby Atmos wireless headphones...

 

[Sal1950]

I have used makemkv to extract files but all i get is one long file of the whole album with no individual tracks, i’m on a macbook so cant use mmh to do anything else like everyone suggests

Insert disc and open makemkv
Click on center icon to scan disc.
Then click on all the little arrows on the left to expand contents tree,
Check or uncheck what you wish to save,
The after deciding where you want to save the file, click Make mkv on the far top right.
Easy

 

[Sal1950]

I have used makemkv to extract files but all i get is one long file of the whole album with no individual tracks, i’m on a macbook so cant use mmh to do anything else like everyone suggests

I may have mis-understood,
If you want to save individual songs you'll need to use DVD AE for that.
If the BD is protected, run it thru MakeMKV - Backup first to de-crypt,
Then open that in DVD-AE to select individual tracks.

 

[HomerJAU]

Sal do you know if the sub-nodes need to also be extracted?

Only select the audio stream you want to decode (The Atmos stream).

The sub stream is only AC3 and is not needed for Atmos decoding

 

[HomerJAU]

Also, for M4A format it mentions that you must use HDMI pass-through for Atmos. Is that true for bluetooth also (meaning bluetooth won't work)? I know that Apple offers Atmos tracks you can download to your phone. So I'm confused on this. If I extract the Atmos track and load to my phone via Itunes, will it not play Atmos via bluetooth? I have an Atmos system (Vizio) that takes bluetooth.

As far as I know you can’t play TrueHD (lossless) Atmos from Blu-ray via Bluetooth. Not enough bandwidth. Also many players will not play TrueHD in m4a files.

 

[Sal1950]

I may have mis-understood,
If you want to save individual songs you'll need to use DVD AE for that.
If the BD is protected, run it thru MakeMKV - Backup first to de-crypt,
Then open that in DVD-AE to select individual tracks.

And you also can't pass Atmos thru DVD AE AFAIK.
Gary may be able to help you with that.