I am (not) the quadiophiliac

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But, haven’t you heard? We only have two ears. So, we only need two speakers.

Now, that statement has been said by many out on the Internet. If only it were true! I’ve had many speaker brands / models in my lifetime and could never get a three-dimensional soundstage with any of them. They’ve all sounded flat and two-dimensional. The exception is tall panels like electrostatic and magneplanar type speakers, which come close. Today, I can get a proper three-dimensional with stereo using Auromatic (Barco Auro-3D).
Are you considering a phantom center in your statement, or referring to something with more sweet spot spatial definition?
To be fair, I've heard things (in stereo) from my speakers that sound like it's coming from a non two-dimensional spot.
 
Well, that's putting a lot of words into his mouth, to be fair. I think he was playing off of my comment about not being able to listen to a 5.1 mix as intended on 2 speakers (which wasn't quite what he was suggesting), and was going with the idea that in general 5.1 mixes are done decades later, and therefore not necessarily what was originally intended. I mean, it's complicated, I think we both have valid points. I just always have to take jabs at people that make comments with anti-surround sentiments.

I expect more to come on this dialog. He is still responding to me. Hopefully we can get a video out of it, and a chance to promote all the great things happening in the 5.1 world these days, and the site.
Maybe I'm not fully understanding the argument or just over reacting here, but try getting the same results with 2 speakers in stereo to the Quad version of Pink Floyd's Money.
 
Maybe I'm not fully understanding the argument or just over reacting here, but try getting the same results with 2 speakers in stereo to the Quad version of Pink Floyd's Money.
With a properly calibrated system with stereo imaged speakers, you can hear it from the outside looking in. The soundstage has depth of field and you can hear the instrument placement from the sweet spot. A phantom center image should absolutely fool you into thinking it comes from a center speaker. (If you don't hear a phantom center image from mono content like that - you don't have such a calibrated system!)

With surround, you get to experience that from the middle of the action instead of from the outside looking in.

With a stereo system that isn't dialed in enough to hear a phantom center or any depth of field, you only hear the front surface of the mix.
Ever wonder what's going on when someone comments that a stereo mix has more depth and immersive quality than a botched surround mix of the same? It's this. Even upmixes from stereo sources can be very revealing vs listening to a stereo setup that only gives you the surface.
 
Are you considering a phantom center in your statement, or referring to something with more sweet spot spatial definition?
To be fair, I've heard things (in stereo) from my speakers that sound like it's coming from a non two-dimensional spot.
With my statement, I was trying to describe stereo as sounding flat in comparison to using more than two speakers.

Sorry, for the confusion! :)
 
With a properly calibrated system with stereo imaged speakers, you can hear it from the outside looking in. The soundstage has depth of field and you can hear the instrument placement from the sweet spot. A phantom center image should absolutely fool you into thinking it comes from a center speaker. (If you don't hear a phantom center image from mono content like that - you don't have such a calibrated system!)

With surround, you get to experience that from the middle of the action instead of from the outside looking in.

With a stereo system that isn't dialed in enough to hear a phantom center or any depth of field, you only hear the front surface of the mix.
Ever wonder what's going on when someone comments that a stereo mix has more depth and immersive quality than a botched surround mix of the same? It's this. Even upmixes from stereo sources can be very revealing vs listening to a stereo setup that only gives you the surface.
I agree with everything you've said there. In a good surround system and mix I've heard imaging i.e. phantom center between FL and RL and of course even effects blasting from say RL to FR through the middle etc.; even sounds that appear to be floating more towards the center of the ceiling (and no I'm not smoking anything, as of yet anyway;).) You might get a little of that from stereo, but no where near the degree with good surround. I just think we're all saying the same thing, except for Steve G.
 
So I just got off the phone with the "audiophiliac". Very interesting call. He's not quite as anti-surround as we thought. His main point seems to be that with people moving in the direction towards soundbars, the time, or the opportunity, has passed. But, he spoke of feeling a frustration with the lack of titles, and the lack of new material, in the SACD and DVD-A days, which I found quite interesting....it seems we share that frustration. Some of us turn into cheerleaders for quad/surround as a result. Others make youtube videos asking if it matters.

Anyways, he wants me to put together a video with my position on surround sound, to blow him away, make my case, which he will post on his channel. I tried to talk him into a joint stream on a hangout on youtube, but he wasn't quite into that idea...but is open to having me on a video with him if I can get to NYC. Which is doable. So...we shall see.....video to come, I need to somehow sum up years of material into a 10 minute video.....
 
So I just got off the phone with the "audiophiliac". Very interesting call. He's not quite as anti-surround as we thought. His main point seems to be that with people moving in the direction towards soundbars, the time, or the opportunity, has passed. But, he spoke of feeling a frustration with the lack of titles, and the lack of new material, in the SACD and DVD-A days, which I found quite interesting....it seems we share that frustration. Some of us turn into cheerleaders for quad/surround as a result. Others make youtube videos asking if it matters.

Anyways, he wants me to put together a video with my position on surround sound, to blow him away, make my case, which he will post on his channel. I tried to talk him into a joint stream on a hangout on youtube, but he wasn't quite into that idea...but is open to having me on a video with him if I can get to NYC. Which is doable. So...we shall see.....video to come, I need to somehow sum up years of material into a 10 minute video.....

Wow, sure I'd like more releases, but it can be more than a full time job hunting down all the available surround titles out there. I discover new music on this forum almost daily that I've never heard of. The only problem I see is the price and availability of some of these titles - because they are so sought after!
 
So I just got off the phone with the "audiophiliac". Very interesting call. He's not quite as anti-surround as we thought. His main point seems to be that with people moving in the direction towards soundbars, the time, or the opportunity, has passed. But, he spoke of feeling a frustration with the lack of titles, and the lack of new material, in the SACD and DVD-A days, which I found quite interesting....it seems we share that frustration. Some of us turn into cheerleaders for quad/surround as a result. Others make youtube videos asking if it matters.

Anyways, he wants me to put together a video with my position on surround sound, to blow him away, make my case, which he will post on his channel. I tried to talk him into a joint stream on a hangout on youtube, but he wasn't quite into that idea...but is open to having me on a video with him if I can get to NYC. Which is doable. So...we shall see.....video to come, I need to somehow sum up years of material into a 10 minute video.....

I'll admit I have some high anticipation about this (maybe more than a set of Carly Simon headlamps.) So please AOQ keep us informed on developments. Do any of us even know if Steve G. has a surround system set up in his home?
 
I'll admit I have some high anticipation about this (maybe more than a set of Carly Simon headlamps.) So please AOQ keep us informed on developments. Do any of us even know if Steve G. has a surround system set up in his home?

When I had asked about what format to send him some quad tracks to review, he said there is an Oppo player in the office (which may or may not work, and may or may not be hooked up), and that he can do bluray at home, so I sent a bluray. I'm guessing that is a setup primarily for video. On the call he mentioned he hasn't had a chance to listen to the disc yet. Not sure what I expect to happen there....I was kinda hoping he'd do a review of it or something, while he has done 5.1 reviews in the past and is quite familiar with that, I don't believe he has had many or any encounters with quad material.
 
When I had asked about what format to send him some quad tracks to review, he said there is an Oppo player in the office (which may or may not work, and may or may not be hooked up), and that he can do bluray at home, so I sent a bluray. I'm guessing that is a setup primarily for video. On the call he mentioned he hasn't had a chance to listen to the disc yet. Not sure what I expect to happen there....I was kinda hoping he'd do a review of it or something, while he has done 5.1 reviews in the past and is quite familiar with that, I don't believe he has had many or any encounters with quad material.

Much appreciated - let's hope he follows through! And if nothing happens, I'd love to learn what you sent him.
 
...I sent a bluray. I'm guessing that is a setup primarily for video. On the call he mentioned he hasn't had a chance to listen to the disc yet. Not sure what I expect to happen there....I was kinda hoping he'd do a review of it or something, while he has done 5.1 reviews in the past and is quite familiar with that, I don't believe he has had many or any encounters with quad material.
I'm familar with sending people surround material to review, but they don't. I feel your pain! 😘
Hopefully he comes though.
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynaquad
2019 being the 50th anniversary of DynaQuad, maybe it's time to reintroduce
DynaQuad in an effort to convince 2 channel Stereo listeners to inexpensively
try a form of Surround Sound and see what they think.

My first experience with Surround Sound at home was the DynaQuad concept,
back in 1972-12.

For example, 2 Polk T15 speakers and some speaker wire from Walmart would
provide (IMHO) a reasonable way to experience Surround Sound from an
existing 2 channel Stereo system with a minimal $ cost.

Kirk Bayne
 
Now that there are Atmos mixes AND capable upmix capabilities in the processors for stereo sources the unenlightened will see the absurdity of saying "I don't have 9.1.2 ears so I don't need Atmos."
 
Unfortunately, the 'audiophiliac' hit the nail on the proverbial HEAD when he pointed to 'lack of surround titles...' and the fact that almost NO new titles have been mixed into the surround format. Sure we have ATMOS, AURO 3D, etc ..... but it's mainly for movies and a few obscure music labels who want to showcase their new albums in their best sonic light.

In all my many years of having multiple surround systems......I've never convinced a single soul to GO SURROUND ..... well maybe one....but it was short lived. Music has become a 'disposable commodity' to the vast majority .... relegated to background musak ...... or earbuds or as audiophiliac distressingly points to ... soundbars as their MAIN TV 'sound SYSTEM [????]'

IMO, the surround odyssey which we QQers once dreamed of has come and gone. The Major record conglomerates let us down BIG TIME ...... Lack of advertising and TOTAL lack of imagination in their attempted Surround release 'schedules' doomed the format from day 1. We really throught the advent of the UNIVERSAL PLAYER would finally open up Joe Q. Public's heart and mind [and ears] to the pleasures of SURROUND ..... and all it really did was sell more hardware, especially as the prices of these Universal Players plummeted.

And listening to surround properly IS a commitment ...... that sweet spot, unfortunately, isn't so sweet if you're trying to showcase it to more than ONE person at a time.

Yes, 2019 has been rather lackluster in the surround department .......a few straglers are in the works mostly in the form of pricey box sets......and as they trickle out the fanatically committed WILL BUY.....but we cannot expect more than a few newbies to join the ranks of rabid QQers whose commitment runs deep. The word NICHE MARKET is our curse whether we choose to accept it ... or NOT!
 
Unfortunately, the 'audiophiliac' hit the nail on the proverbial HEAD when he pointed to 'lack of surround titles...' and the fact that almost NO new titles have been mixed into the surround format.

Except for the Classical and Jazz markets where we see new Surround titles every week! :)
 
And most unfortunately, Brian, two even smaller NICHE MARKETS!

Well, we do need to be clear that there are Surround recordings being released every week - and in some cases, twice a week.
And they are in markets where listeners are still buying albums. Something the record labels and music companies are always interested in! :)
 
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