Inquiry About Chicago X in DVD-A

[leevitalone1]

Time is running out, the customer base who wants this stuff is ageing/diminishing, the tapes are deteriorating.. It's just so sad and needless

You made me realize the fact we are getting up there. These bastards will never give a bunch of old farts what we want!

 

[Philip Spinner]

It's because we're not the right demographic. Old people don't buy shit anymore. At least that is the thinking upstairs I suppose.
Phil.

 

[georgeshannon]

Old folks like us have the big money. The reason we don't buy shit anymore is because they don't offer any shit worth buying anymore. They offer up mindless music for the kiddies with their nickels and dimes rather than serious music for the well endowed multitudes of the baby boom generation. And then they complain about lower record sales. If they were concerned about making a profit, which they are evidently not, they would offer up product for the majority with the most money.

Record companies are stupid. Craig Furguson said it best last week. Those idiot executives still call it a record company.

 

[leevitalone1]

ha! Loke the song says, "It's the old man who's got all the money, and a young man, anit got nothin in the world" But do you think they would want to sell us what we wanted the bastards. Hey, If so, I'll be listening till that day comes, I see it now at 72, blasting machine head! Hey!! Old dude turn that shit down!

 

[neil wilkes]

Old folks like us have the big money. The reason we don't buy shit anymore is because they don't offer any shit worth buying anymore. They offer up mindless music for the kiddies with their nickels and dimes rather than serious music for the well endowed multitudes of the baby boom generation. And then they complain about lower record sales. If they were concerned about making a profit, which they are evidently not, they would offer up product for the majority with the most money.

Record companies are stupid. Craig Furguson said it best last week. Those idiot executives still call it a record company.

Sadly, this is all too true.
Bulk of effort goes at the age group with the least money.
No effort at all to those who have the cash to indulge in their hobby

Madness.

 

[Quadzilla]

Sadly, this is all too true.
Bulk of effort goes at the age group with the least money.
No effort at all to those who have the cash to indulge in their hobby

Madness.

They have the least amount of money, AND they are least likely to willingly PAY for their music.
The download generation sees no value to intellectual property. If it is on the Internet, then it is free as far as they are concerned.

 

[holland123]

i think that has always been the thinking in recorded music, that newest is best, if it's old it has to be rotten. i can remember many times at the music store looking for an older release by an artist only to find the bin for that artist stocked with 20 copies of the latest release and nothing beyond that except for maybe a greatest hits regurg. i even think i can remember my dad coming back from the record shop bitching about how he could'nt get an older kingston trio album and how the store was just full of beatles, and buddy holly.

 

[ChristopherLees]

well the unreleased x dvda eventually escaped the vaults to ebay a few years ago.

 

[Blimp3358]

well the unreleased x dvda eventually escaped the vaults to ebay a few years ago.

and now it's back on the bay! I really want it but cash is major strapped these days

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CHICAGO-X-DVD-A-dvd-audio-5-1-ORIGINAL-reference-disk-RHINO-2004-audiophile-/230858051263

the first post in this thread mentions the reference disc and the video for this auction mentions there being 2 reference discs

the video

http://vimeo.com/50413571

seems legit and just wish it wasn't rent week

 

[kap'n krunch]

I personally prefer the original Quad mix....

and even if I had the $$$, I wouldn't bother with this, which looks like a DVD-R...

I apologize if this is threadcrap, just my opinion...

 

[Blimp3358]

I agree, have put it back on the 'to do' list

X was the only quad I never acquired. C.T.A. too but got the RHINO quad release about 2 years ago.

 

[JonUrban]

The strange story of the Chicago X DVD-Audio. It's sort of forgotten here in 2020 but the question still remains. How did that disc get "out there", and why did it never get released.

And why did WB cave on DVD-A at that time, yet still release a few (Crosby, Nash, Browne, LoTR) after the hatchet fell.

It's things like this Chicago X DVD-A that really make the hobby interesting.

Here's the "discovery" thread:

https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/threads/unreleased-chicago-dvd-a.10027/

 

[steelydave]

My recollection was that the seller was ChicagoKid1969. I don't know what his actual human name is, but he had some kind of connection to the band, and around that time was sourcing footage of the group for a DVD-Video compilation of concert performances - he had a YouTube channel under the same username that was full of rare performance clips.

I don't really know the full story, but it seems that that DVD was cancelled, and/or he had a falling out with the band, because shortly thereafter he deleted everything off his YouTube channel and the auction for the three DVD-A discs appeared on eBay. I don't know who bought the discs or where they were shared, but that's my edumacated guess as to where it came from.

As to why this one was shelved and the others @JonUrban listed still came out, I think the difference was that those were CD+DVD-A sets. Rhino reissued a remastered CD of Chicago X with bonus tracks in 2003, so they probably didn't think there was any wisdom in doing a CD+DVD-A set just a couple of years later.

 

[Old Quad Guy]

It’s been awhile, but as I recall, there’s a flaw in the DVD-A mastering of the disc. Everything good, except in the “extras” section where there is the photo gallery, you can click in, but can’t logically click out! It sends you into an endless loop. You can get out of this loop easy enough, but the average person might not. Certainly a DVD-A disc mastering flaw.

Perhaps there was a time limit to get the release out, and the disc error botched it. It would have been a great title for DVD-A in the early 2000’s.

 

[JonUrban]

and now it's back on the bay! I really want it but cash is major strapped these days

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CHICAGO-X-D...ence-disk-RHINO-2004-audiophile-/230858051263

the first post in this thread mentions the reference disc and the video for this auction mentions there being 2 reference discs

the video



seems legit and just wish it wasn't rent week

Pretty interesting that although the eBay listing is long gone, the vimeo link above is still good and if you watch it you basically get a complete tour of the DVD-Audio disc - although the dude takes his time going through it. He does show the menus, the extras, the credits, and the video that's on the disc.

This thing was ready to roll. It had to be canned at the very last minute as the authoring was complete as you can see from the video.

Now, where's that Graceland DVD-Audio?

 

[bmoura]

The strange story of the Chicago X DVD-Audio. It's sort of forgotten here in 2020 but the question still remains. How did that disc get "out there", and why did it never get released.
https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/threads/unreleased-chicago-dvd-a.10027/

There are a number of reissues over the years that were completed - or nearly completed - that for one reason, or another - were never released.
It's always interesting to hear the stories as to why.

 

[JonUrban]

There are a number of reissues over the years that were completed - or nearly completed - that for one reason, or another - were never released.
It's always interesting to hear the stories as to why.

..........and it's even more interesting when one of them slips out to the general public. I would imagine much to the dismay of the originator.

This is why I dug this thread out because many of the newer members were not around when this, and many other things, happened over the almost 2 decades we've been here. When it's a slow day, rainy, not much happening, and you're stuck at home due to say, a pandemic, digging through QQ's deep threads can be very entertaining!

 

[sjcorne]

Interesting read, thanks for reviving the thread. I'm intrigued by the discussion of the authoring - the copy I found a while back is a DVD-A ISO with no menus at all. It's like someone ripped the original copy and then made a new menu-less disc with DiscWelder or Cirlinca.

The sound quality is excellent, but the surround mix doesn't do much for me. It's mixed exactly the same way as the two Chicago DVD-A's that were released. To my ears, there's nothing actually panned to the rear channels; just elements that sort of 'favor' them (horns, some percussion, backing vocals) but appear in all channels at once. The center channel actually contains the most isolated elements - bass guitar, vocals, and some solos. It's more of an 'immersive' experience compared to the extreme directionality of the quad mix, which is the approach the '70s CBS engineers were forced to take because of the SQ matrix.

"If You Leave Me Now" (5.1):

"If You Leave Me Now" (4.0)":

 

[edisonbaggins]

Interesting read, thanks for reviving the thread. I'm intrigued by the discussion of the authoring - the copy I found a while back is a DVD-A ISO with no menus at all. It's like someone ripped the original copy and then made a new menu-less disc with DiscWelder or Cirlinca.

The sound quality is excellent, but the surround mix doesn't do much for me. It's mixed exactly the same way as the two Chicago DVD-A's that were released. To my ears, there's nothing actually panned to the rear channels; just elements that sort of 'favor' them (horns, some percussion, backing vocals) but appear in all channels at once. The center channel actually contains the most isolated elements - bass guitar, vocals, and some solos. It's more of an 'immersive' experience compared to the extreme directionality of the quad mix, which is the approach the '70s CBS engineers were forced to take because of the SQ matrix.

"If You Leave Me Now" (5.1):
View attachment 49069

"If You Leave Me Now" (4.0)":
View attachment 49068

I totally get what you're saying, regarding elements favoring the surrounds, as opposed to being hard-panned. In this case, elements favor the surrounds enough for me. At least on my main HTS.
One reason I set up my full-range system was to hear the Chicago Quads as intended. Just haven't had the chance. On my HTS, the 3 Chicago 5.1's are better balanced and plenty surroundy, for my taste.

 

[steelydave]

I still listen to the 5.1 mix of Chicago II because it's the best sounding version of the album (I even thought Steven Wilson didn't go far enough in righting the EQ issues with the album in his remix) but all of the Chicago 5.1 mixes are basically what I'd call "big stereo" - the majority of the mix is in the front three speakers, but about half of what occurs in the front left and right speakers is duplicated in the corresponding rear left or rear right speaker. As you say, the rears sometimes seem to 'favour' one thing or another but I think it's basically dominant-channel theory in effect. Take any track from any one of these DVD-As, load it up in a DAW, put on some headphones pan the three front speakers to your left ear, and the two rear speakers to your right ear - you'll hear a lot that seems center panned (ie occurs in both front and ear equally) and lots in the left ear (ie front) but I don't think you'll hear anything exclusively in your right ear (ie rear speakers).

Thank goodness we got the Quadio box set - the 5.1 mixes were such a missed opportunity to create something that could've been the reference standard given the elements and material they had to work with. The mixes themselves are excellent in terms of faithfulness to the original mix balances, and tonality improves on the original mixes if anything, but the conservative surround philosophy lets them down. I can only assume this was at the behest of Lee Loughnane, who supervised these mixes, because plenty of Paul Klingberg's other 5.1 mixes (ELP, Earth Wind & Fire, Foreigner, etc.) are very discrete.