Involve Surround Master - original & V2 - "Pumping" issue

QuadraphonicQuad

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J. PUPSTER

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The next step:
Record the audio problem with a smartphone (from one speaker, in mono) and make the audio available to QQ.

Possibly listening to one (troublesome?) channel will help solve the audio problem.


Kirk Bayne
This goes way back Kirk to my earlier post asking for more details; but so far not even a mention of the source material, makes me wonder why not?

 

kfbkfb

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If the smartphone option is available, I hope the sound quality is suitable for helping to diagnose the audio problem (I don't know about the frequency response or distortion of smartphone microphones).


Kirk Bayne
 

fredblue

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Thanks for the SACD tip!! I found one new on Ebay for $50 plus $10 shipping so I've already snagged it. Now I'll get to see if the discrete version is as good as what I heard through the Surround Master!

its my favourite Surround SACD of all-time 🥰 i hope you like it even a fraction as MU(lti)CH as i D(o)SD 🤞💘
 

DuncanS

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I'll try and remember to give it a try in the morning
I thought I had it on CD but no only on SACD, and I couldn't find it :eek: but I found it now (a lot of discs are still in boxes following the mouse invasion last summer, and then kept there until the room was re-decorated) so the test will have to wait until tomorrow now. But, I've never heard any 'pumping' when listening to stereo albums played through the SM2 in Involve 4.1 mode (or in SQ/QS decodes either).
 

DuncanS

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I listened to "Someone saved my life tonight" on the SACD, via the analogue stereo outputs on my Oppo 203 through the SM2 in Involve 4.0 mode from the
Stereo layer and the Multi-channel layer downmixed by the Oppo to stereo (in case it would show up something). Then directly as the SACD stereo and multi-channel without the SM2 in the path.

My speakers aren't that far apart as the room is only 3.8m/12.5' x 3.6m/11.8', but I walked round sticking my ear next to each. If there was pumping I would expect to hear a whooshing in the audio, and/or a 'disappearance' of some of the audio in that channel, or when in the centre of the room a shifting/'bouncing' of the audio 'image'.

I couldn't identify any due to the SM2.

But, its an early/mid-70s recording and the drums & percussion are distorted, as are a few instruments. I could hear what I think is compander pumping in the original album directly from the SACD and more noticeable in the multi-channel. So to limit peaks or to create an 'effect' the signal is passed through an envelope tracking compander on the mixing desk either on record or during playback, sometimes with a noise gate. What I think I can hear is some envelope tracking giving a pumping 'sound' on the drums and percussion due mainly to tape hiss in the Left channel in stereo or left front in surround. However this is present no matter how I listened to it, it is probably slightly more noticeable in the SM2 Quad synthesis mode.
 

J. PUPSTER

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I listened to "Someone saved my life tonight" on the SACD, via the analogue stereo outputs on my Oppo 203 through the SM2 in Involve 4.0 mode from the
Stereo layer and the Multi-channel layer downmixed by the Oppo to stereo (in case it would show up something). Then directly as the SACD stereo and multi-channel without the SM2 in the path.

My speakers aren't that far apart as the room is only 3.8m/12.5' x 3.6m/11.8', but I walked round sticking my ear next to each. If there was pumping I would expect to hear a whooshing in the audio, and/or a 'disappearance' of some of the audio in that channel, or when in the centre of the room a shifting/'bouncing' of the audio 'image'.

I couldn't identify any due to the SM2.

But, its an early/mid-70s recording and the drums & percussion are distorted, as are a few instruments. I could hear what I think is compander pumping in the original album directly from the SACD and more noticeable in the multi-channel. So to limit peaks or to create an 'effect' the signal is passed through an envelope tracking compander on the mixing desk either on record or during playback, sometimes with a noise gate. What I think I can hear is some envelope tracking giving a pumping 'sound' on the drums and percussion due mainly to tape hiss in the Left channel in stereo or left front in surround. However this is present no matter how I listened to it, it is probably slightly more noticeable in the SM2 Quad synthesis mode.
Very interesting Duncan! Just listened to it on headphones (couple of YouTube’s only so far.) It’s funny, ‘cause on this song I’ve apparently always focused on Elton’s powerful vocals and the story line of the song and kind of experienced the instruments as background music, if that makes any sense? But what I was focused on, was an electric piano that to me sounds like it has a fairly long delay on it that shifts from hard left through the back of my head and then to the right. Almost thought “Leslie speaker”, but that’s not right IMO. There’s also regular piano, but that sounds much dryer. I’ll give it a go with the stereo layer of the SACD at some point.
 
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