Quad LP/Tape Poll James, Tommy, & The Shondells: Best Of Tommy James And The Shondells [Q8]

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Rate "The Best Of Tommy James & The Shondells"


  • Total voters
    17
As a Tommy James fan since 1966, and as I got to listen again to the quad mix tonight(bought a sealed Q8 for about $75 recently), good time as any to post about the mixes from a collector's perspective. Been a long, long time since I'd heard these, but great fun with the best, nasty at worst.

In order of single/Lp release:

1. HANKY PANKY. This is actually a rechanneled version--probably pulled from the first album and used on the original BEST OF '69 Lp--'expanded and enhanced' to quad(heh). Of course it's a needledrop, since Roulette had nothing but a copy of the original Snap 45 to work with.

2. I THINK WE'RE ALONE NOW. The sad thing about this one--aside from the fact that it sounds like duophonic expanded to quad, and pretty murky and messy at that--is that a multitrack tape apparently was misfiled(or something), since, in the '90s, a stereo underdub(with not much missing)first made its way onto a Rhino budget CD you could buy for less than $10 almost anywhere. But back in '67, the tape wasn't used, hence the rechannelings ever since, including what is heard here.

3. MIRAGE. Stereo Lp version(a later contrived mix was made for a Varese various artists comp, and very good for what it is, but Roulette never issued such a beast). These early ones didn't give the mixers much to work with, apparently, because there's some delay and other gimmicks to make it quad, more than it sounds like quad. The single was not only compressed, but had added backing vocals near the end that sound very missed here--essential, in fact.

4. (Baby, Baby)I CAN'T TAKE IT NO MORE. This one is hurt by a double-track vocal sound that really doesn't work(unlike the stereo--original mono has the best mix). Like the above, taken from the I THINK WE'RE ALONE NOW Lp, early '67.

5. MONY MONY. Always fun to hear, but there are several mixes, including at least two stereo variants, maybe more; again, the original mono mix has the most party-hearty, punchy sound. This mix isn't bad given its vintage and limitations, but despite the fidelity, sounds limp and at times unfocused--and an underdub, with bk vocals and probably a few instruments missing that were added to the 45.

6. CRIMSON & CLOVER. This is Version 2--Lp version from the album of the same title. It's basically a stereo mix of the 45 version broken in half by a long and (typical for its time) psychedelic passage to extend its length.

The mix starts out in front(and like a few other mixes, Tommy is all but isolated in one channel--mixing sense would have him even in both front channels, but someone felt otherwise), with the rears pretty much silent; then the backing vocals are heard in the rear. When the long instrumental 'bridge' kicks in, separate guitars are heard in each channel, and one in the RF, making this a really, really good quad mix for its detail, and everything holds together well.

7. SUGAR ON SUNDAY. A hit for The Clique later in the year, this original version plays Ok in quad, nothing spectacular, but good.

8. CRYSTAL BLUE PERSUASION. This is based on stereo Version 1--the original Lp version. The single added extra instruments(including brass scattered during the last thirty seconds), and was a fine mix, but lacked the detail of the stereo. Not sure what's going on here, but this mix, though fun to hear, seems to be missing something further from the unadorned stereo Lp version--meaning it might be from the actual session tapes(as is obvious with "Ball Of Fire"), before the final stereo mix was made. Later, a stereo mix attempting to approximate the mono single was done, but that was almost 20 years down the road(and still didn't quite match).

9. SWEET CHERRY WINE. Stereo Lp version to quad; no 45 overdubs or edits, AFAIK. Fine mix for what it is, but widened, it is, as my wife pointed out, relaxed and almost beatific, the intro panning's cool.

10. BALL OF FIRE. Stereo Version 1--and this was its first album appearance, understandable because it was their most recent single. Unlike the single version--which had an edit near the end with added percussion and vocals--this first album version is likely from the actual session tape, since it ends differently(and runs longer than the single). Later, a stereo remix turned up at the same time as "Crystal," but a pretty fair match for the mono mix, except it faded later.


Is this essential for the quad/MC collector? In spite of what's bad about it--Yes. The best of it is well worth hearing, and what's amazing, as we all know, is that it was, given the circumstances and limitations inherent to the project, put out in quad at all. And this group, despite a lot of dross, came up with some real pop gems that have stood up well over forty years of listening.

ED :)
 
Thanks for the kind words, Clark.

The fascinating aspect of this Q8, listening to it again, is that *some* care went into the remixes--that is, of the songs for which decent remixes could be made(the late '68/69 material). There are no mastering credits, but we can tell, with the panning effects and isolated vocals and instruments, that whoever did the work was referencing others, probably the more popular rock Q8's of RCA and Columbia/Epic, for better and worse....:D There is an internal logic, though, once you isolate the best and forget the rest.



ED :)
 
Thanks for the kind words, Clark.

The fascinating aspect of this Q8, listening to it again, is that *some* care went into the remixes--that is, of the songs for which decent remixes could be made(the late '68/69 material). There are no mastering credits, but we can tell, with the panning effects and isolated vocals and instruments, that whoever did the work was referencing others, probably the more popular rock Q8's of RCA and Columbia/Epic, for better and worse....:D There is an internal logic, though, once you isolate the best and forget the rest.

ED :)

That's a good take on the Q8. The songs where they could mix into Quad the results were good. But the two tracks where the source didn't exist, it might have been better to skip them altogether.

All in all, an interesting one to hear to be sure.
 
I never could quite understand why Ball of Fire was mixed with the lead vocals off to one side. Wasn't Ball of Fire recorded in '69? Shouldn't that have been at least an 8 track master? You'd think more could have been done with it. (I did on my remix)

Even with Mony Mony, centering the vocals would only have improved the mix. It wouldn't be the first time the fronts of a quad mix are near mono! It almost would have been prudent to make a "Quad Only" release and select only songs with known and accessible multi tracks. Though that would have excluded some of the best known songs.

I like it for what it is, don't get me wrong.... it took me a while to chase down this Q8 as I did want it. I just had my hopes up about it before I knew the actual history behind it. I do proudly display it in my case of Q8's in my Gremlin at car shows!
 
Along with only a few other quad titles, this one gets a lot more discussion and fan interest than most, and it certainly is a curious puppy, huh? :D

Also being discussed in THIS thread.
 
Now we come to: how many versions/mixes exist of the songs? To go back again to chronological order:

1. HANKY PANKY: Only one 'legit' mix, and that's the original mono 45, whether on Snap, Roulette, or any other source. Not recorded in stereo (nor was its flip, "Thunderbolt"), it was first rechanneled on the Roulette Lp of the same title, and on most subsequent vinyl reissues. It got 'quadded' (heh) for this tape, but it sounds even more terrible this way.

2. I THINK WE'RE ALONE NOW: For a lotta years, was assumed to be mono only, and indeed it was, or else rechanneled, as "Hanky" was, on subsequent reissues and sundry...and yes, 'quadded' for the Q8, and yes, appalling sound quality, a waste of time. Surprise, then, when Bill Inglot finally found tapes to fashion a stereo mix, although it was missing an overdub. Did run longer, too. Gotta wonder, though, why whomever produced and remixed the Q8 didn't find that tape so as to fashion some kind of 'faux 5.1' mix that would have at least fit in a little. Which brings me to...

3. MIRAGE and 4. (Baby, Baby)I CAN'T TAKE IT NO MORE: These two in quad sound as if they were fauxed from a stereo source, rather than remixed to quad (as the reset of the songs obviously were). The amount of delay used for both tracks suggests such chicanery, The attempt to fake it is effective up to a point. History of MIRAGE: Version 1--mono Lp version; Version 2--mono stereo Lp version. Both lack overdubs added to Version 3--mono 45 version (version 3A can be considered the stereo hybrid created for a Dick Bartley CD compilation). Version 4 is the quad mix, such as it is. BABY, AFAIK, exist only as Version 1--mono 45/Lp version, Version 2--stereo Lp version, and Version 3--quad mix, such as it is...

5. MONY MONY. The keeper is Version 1--the mono 45 mix. Version 2 was the stereo Lp mix from '68, but this one has been remixed at least once, and different fades exist (including the quad mix--which I'll call Version 3 if only because it was the third version I came across). This and the rest of the cuts are true discrete quad mixes of varying quality.


6. CRIMSON AND CLOVER: Version 1--mono 45 mix. Version 2--stereo Lp mix. Version 3--quad mix (based on Lp version). Version 4--stereo remix of 45 edit. Version 5--stereo Lp version, with long instrumental middle pitch-corrected. Version 3 here is interesting for the long wait for the back channels to kick in--the movement of the vocals around the listening area near the end, and the end itself--which doesn't quite match any of the other three. (There is also a Version 2A, a folddown of the stereo Lp version--or I assume it's a fold--that turned up on a few Roulette v.a. comps).

7. SUGAR ON SUNDAY. Version 1--stereo Lp version. Version 2--quad mix. One of these days I'll compare the two, but probably my least favorite track here, though it is catchy (and a hit for The Clique, though it could have clicked-heh--for Tommy too!)

8. SWEET CHERRY WINE. Version 1--mono 45 version. Version 2--stereo Lp version. Version 3--quad version. Version 4--stereo remix (and again, there may be more than one floating around). Like #9, the mono 45 mix/feel has never been duplicated for stereo, let alone quad. The quad mix is a fine one, but doesn't end like the 45 or Lp mix. Which is fun and frustrating at once.

9. CRYSTAL BLUE PERSUASION: Version 1--mono 45 version. Version 2--stereo Lp version. Version 3--quad version. Version 4--stereo remix w/some 45 overdubs (and has probably been remixed since, who knows?). Like a few other TJ singles, has a varied and curious history of mixes. The quad mix does have one 45 overdub or two, but still missing too much, although it is, again, very enjoyable to hear.

10. BALL OF FIRE: Version 1--mono 45 version. Version 2--stereo Lp version, first appeared on the stereo edition of this album. Version 3--quad remixs of Lp version. Version 4--stereo remix of 45 version (nice job by Mr. Inglot, though I think it runs a bit longer than the 45 did). Version 2 is notable because it does not end like the 45, which had an obvious edit point where the ending comes in. Presumably the stereo Lp mix was taken from the unedited session tape, which did not include the tag, which was probably done later. The quad mix replicates the stereo Lp version, and was obviously taken from the same multitrack source.

Any comments/corrections are welcome. We know some of Tommy's stuff has been remixed along the way, but not sure how much and to what extent.



ED :)
 
For Clarification:

Ball of Fire
Mony Mony

Both have lead vocals stuck in Front Left (n)

Crimson & Clover
Crystal Blue Persuasion
Sweet Cherry Wine
Sugar on Sunday

These 4 songs obviously came from multitrack masters. I'd be curious to know what the mixer was smoking that day as I'd like to purchase about 5 bucks worth. Must've been some good stuff! While they are discrete, the mixes are all different and make no sense. Of them, the best mix I would have to say is "Crystal Blue".

What I don't get, is that 3 songs were originally stereo, which meant they had to have at least 4 track masters! Jefferson Airplane used 4 track masters on some songs and they came up with GOOD mixes using just that. The Doors in many cases, had a 3 track master.... and those even sounded great.I'm glad I didn't shell out the $100+ that this Q8 usually goes for. I'd be VERY disappointed....and I'm a BIG Tommy James fan!


Regardless of where we find the lead vocal on "Ball of Fire" it is true blue Quadraphonic with exclusive content in rear L and rear R channels, and comes from the "multitrack masters" just like Crimson & Clover, Crystal Blue, Cherry Wine, and Sugar on Sunday, and is not in the same duo-phonic category as "Mony Mony" at all

I have Tab's Q8 conversion to DTS CD, and it's a strikingly clear Q8, one of the best I've heard from material this old. Love it! Or at least I love the five true-quad inclusions.
 
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Evidently there's also 2 different quads for this, I've owned both, one had the left front/rear swapped iirc.
I voted 8 on this one, the performances are really great, mixes all over the place from horrible mono to really fun, like Crimson or Sweet Cherry Wine or 1 or 2 other later tracks.
 
Regardless of where we find the lead vocal on "Ball of Fire" it is true blue Quadraphonic with exclusive content in rear L and rear R channels, and comes from the "multitrack masters" just like Crimson & Clover, Crystal Blue, Cherry Wine, and Sugar on Sunday, and is not in the same duo-phonic category as "Mony Mony" at all

True. But it's a shame that, "Ball of Fire" being one of the later tunes from 1969 and specifically recorded for this album, should have been either 8 or even 16 track by that point. To shlump the vocal over to one side like that is almost inexcusable.
 
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