Atlanta Pop had it's moments. I assume you own the Capitol CD release of the Band at Watkins Glen?
Music DVD Poll Jimi Hendrix - Live at Woodstock, Double Disc Edition
- Thread starter neil wilkes
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leevitalone1
2K Club - QQ Super Nova
Jimi was god!!!!
you heathens...how dare you rate this anything BUT a 10????
HA-RUMPH HA-RUMPH ("I didn't get a ha-rumph out of that guy....you watch your ass!")
Let's see how you would handle waiting til Monday morning (after ShaNaNa!!!) all stoned and tired and play the brilliant set he did!!!!
"Villanova Junction" is just...mindblowing....he was ONE with his Strat!!!!
(end of rant!)
HA Rumph!!
Linda: Only about half of the The Band at Watkins Glen is actually at Watkins Glen.......there are songs on it that they did not even play at the Glen. If you get the remastered Rock of Ages with the bonus disc...well, the source is evident as the same New Year's Eve Carnagie Hall concert! John
leevitalone1
2K Club - QQ Super Nova
anyone get the BD version? It's DTS MA
Thanks, John. I've had 4 Rock of Ages: LP's, CD, CD w/bonus tracks, and MoFi 2ch SACD (sounds like crap, no bonus tracks), plus I have Watkins. Didn't notice that, but will check it out.
Got that and it's AWESOOOOME!!!!
Ranasakawa
1K Club - QQ Shooting Star
Performance is great, sound has always been muddy, as Woodstock was recorded on 8 track primitive equipment.
Miami pop 1968 is a brilliant show, it's on the recent Hendrix doco on DVD
Miami pop 1968 is a brilliant show, it's on the recent Hendrix doco on DVD
This is an important release, but not for the surround mix.
The Mix: possibly a missed opportunity. While I do not know the content of the multitracks (14 tracks of audio and two tracks of sync code for film on two 8 track machines), I cannot imagine they did not offer enough to do more than what was done. A check of isolated rears reveals variable levels of reverb from front elements. The percussion is only lightly represented in the rear reverb, so that percussion is focused in the front of the soundstage, and the guitars feel more opened to the whole room, but really only through heavier reverb.
Another note about the percussion is that the congas are shown to be played, but are sonically omitted by mistake or design. Perhaps this is a clue about the multichannel mix. On page 218 of the McDermott/Kramer book "Setting The Record Straight," Kramer admits he did not like most of the performance. It therefore seems possible that in mixing the release he had no desire to spread the instruments across the surround soundstage. Doing so might have exposed some of the lack of cohesion the band famously had for much of the performance, and it is possible that the mix as it stands is an attempt to be as historically kind to the performance as possible.
After switching the rears on and off multiple times I found that I prefer just using the stereo mix. For surround I prefer what my Yamaha RX-V2600 amp does with the stereo fronts in the "7 channel stereo" processed mode rather than the DTS mix as presented on the disc. That says something.
Bottom line - no need to buy this product for the mix.
The performance: This is an uneven performance - not as consistent as Monterey or some of Jimi's other personal bests, HOWEVER, I have listened to all official Hendrix recordings and hours of unofficial recordings, and I am of the opinion that the following performances from this show are superlative:
"Fire" A blistering performance with lots of extra soloing 3:42
"Voodoo Child (Slight Return)" Parts of this meander, but parts are killer! 13:39
"Star Spangled Banner" An iconic performance. 3:46
"Purple Haze" Probably not his best ever, but solid, and unique at the end 4:23
"Woodstock Improvisation" Unique and special among all Hendrix performances 4:04
"Villanova Junction Blues" A beautiful and rare track 4:26
Many people are under the impression that the Woodstock rendition of the Star Spangled Banner was either a debut or a one-off performance, however Jimi was documented as regularly performing this in America as early as August of 1968 (with a possible one-off in March of 1968), and indeed included it in many of his performances before and after Woodstock. The Woodstock performance is notable in being excellent, well-recorded (as compared to the audience tapes of many others), and as being poignant at the peace gathering of the baby boomers at the height of the Vietnam war. All kinds of meaning was ascribed to the performance. Wikipedia has this to say on the topic:
"Although contemporary political pundits described his interpretation as a statement against the Vietnam War, three weeks later Hendrix explained its meaning: "We're all Americans ... it was like 'Go America!'... We play it the way the air is in America today. The air is slightly static, see". Immortalized in the 1970 documentary film, Woodstock, his guitar-driven version would become part of the sixties Zeitgeist. Pop critic Al Aronowitz of The New York Post wrote: "It was the most electrifying moment of Woodstock, and it was probably the single greatest moment of the sixties." Images of the performance showing Hendrix wearing a blue-beaded white leather jacket with fringe, a red head-scarf, and blue jeans are widely regarded as iconic pictures that capture a defining moment of the era. In 2011, the editors of Guitar World placed his rendition of "The Star Spangled Banner" at Woodstock at number one in their list of his 100 greatest performances."
I agree that the SSB is among the great performances of Woodstock, but for me it is topped by Woodstock Improvisation. I would place this among his top recorded performances. Others up there would be (but not limited to) Stone Free from 2/24/69 (found on The Jimi Hendrix Concerts), Machine Gun (on Band of Gypsies), and Wild Thing (from Monterey Pop).
As to the comment from leevitalone1: "Our thoughts were he was up tripping for a couple days before going on, and either still high or very tired." I would like to comment that the book "Setting The Record Straight" suggests he was dosed on LSD the night before and worried about going on, but in the end they waited until the next morning. It is quite likely therefore that he got little or no sleep the night before, but unlikely that he was still tripping. As I watched the footage I looked for evidence that he was tripping, and I am convinced that he was not.
Concerning playing music under the influence of psychedelics, the evidence seems to suggest that things can go either way. In the case of Hendrix, Monterey would be the extreme of brilliance, and his performance at Madison Square Garden on 1/28/70 (my 6th birthday, so I was unable to attend) offers evidence of a meandering disappointment. He abandoned the concert after two songs, and those two songs were decidedly weird. That said, there is still some fascinating playing, and the audience recording is worth a listen for those interested in the topic of music and psychedelics. Generally, psychedelics act as an amplifier, and so whatever mindset you start with colors what follows. The only other factor is whether you can keep it together to actually play. I have heard some amazing music produced under such influence, so I would not dismiss any such music out of hand.
Related to earlier discussions here about the Grateful Dead, here is a list of acid tests in which the Grateful Dead or some of their members are said to have participated:
11/27/66 Santa Cruz, California (1st Acid Test - band still known as the Warlocks)
12/4/65 San Jose, CA (the first supposed performance under the name Grateful Dead)
12/11/65 Palo Alto, CA
12/18/65 Muir Beach, CA
12/24/65 Portland, Oregon
1/8/66 Fillmore, SF, CA
1/15/66 Portland, Oregon
1/22/66 Longshoreman's Hall, SF, CA
1/23/66 Longshoreman's Hall, SF, CA
1/29/66 Sound City Studios, SF, CA (only Jerry & Pigpen)
2/12/66 Compton, CA
3/12/66 Danish Center, Los Angeles, CA
3/19/66 Carthay Center, Los Angeles, CA
4/22/66 Longshoreman's Hall, SF, CA
4/23/66 Longshoreman's Hall, SF, CA
4/24/66 Longshoreman's Hall, SF, CA
7/29/66 Vancouver, BC
7/30/66 Vancouver, BC
7/31/66 Vancouver, BC
10/31/66 Winterland, San Francisco, California (Acid Test Graduation)
It is a fair bet that the band and most of the audience were tripping on LSD at all of these events, and these would not be the only times the Dead performed on psychedelics. There is a great interview with Ken Kesey and Jerry Garcia on the topic which was broadcast on May 7th, 1981 on the NBC TV show "Tomorrow Coast to Coast" with Tom Snyder. It can be found on the officially released DVD "The Tomorrow Show - Tom Snyder's Electric Kool-Aid Talk Show," and aside from being one of my all-time favorite Jerry Garcia interviews, has some great acoustic performance footage of the Dead. Here they talk specifically about the Acid Tests, and again for those who have an interest this is not to me missed. The interview can also be seen here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Egz_ex3d_s
Giving this a rating in this context is hard. I cannot go above a 2 for the surround mix, because it is a crappy surround mix. But as discussed above, this might be by design.
The DVD is an important document of an important event, and some essential music from Hendrix is included. One hopes and presumes that this is the best possible archival document of the available recordings, and the flaws cannot be blamed on this release, but rather on the source materiel. So I would not want to discourage anyone from buying this. So a 10 for the archival nature, and a 2 for the mix, averages out to a 6.
The Mix: possibly a missed opportunity. While I do not know the content of the multitracks (14 tracks of audio and two tracks of sync code for film on two 8 track machines), I cannot imagine they did not offer enough to do more than what was done. A check of isolated rears reveals variable levels of reverb from front elements. The percussion is only lightly represented in the rear reverb, so that percussion is focused in the front of the soundstage, and the guitars feel more opened to the whole room, but really only through heavier reverb.
Another note about the percussion is that the congas are shown to be played, but are sonically omitted by mistake or design. Perhaps this is a clue about the multichannel mix. On page 218 of the McDermott/Kramer book "Setting The Record Straight," Kramer admits he did not like most of the performance. It therefore seems possible that in mixing the release he had no desire to spread the instruments across the surround soundstage. Doing so might have exposed some of the lack of cohesion the band famously had for much of the performance, and it is possible that the mix as it stands is an attempt to be as historically kind to the performance as possible.
After switching the rears on and off multiple times I found that I prefer just using the stereo mix. For surround I prefer what my Yamaha RX-V2600 amp does with the stereo fronts in the "7 channel stereo" processed mode rather than the DTS mix as presented on the disc. That says something.
Bottom line - no need to buy this product for the mix.
The performance: This is an uneven performance - not as consistent as Monterey or some of Jimi's other personal bests, HOWEVER, I have listened to all official Hendrix recordings and hours of unofficial recordings, and I am of the opinion that the following performances from this show are superlative:
"Fire" A blistering performance with lots of extra soloing 3:42
"Voodoo Child (Slight Return)" Parts of this meander, but parts are killer! 13:39
"Star Spangled Banner" An iconic performance. 3:46
"Purple Haze" Probably not his best ever, but solid, and unique at the end 4:23
"Woodstock Improvisation" Unique and special among all Hendrix performances 4:04
"Villanova Junction Blues" A beautiful and rare track 4:26
Many people are under the impression that the Woodstock rendition of the Star Spangled Banner was either a debut or a one-off performance, however Jimi was documented as regularly performing this in America as early as August of 1968 (with a possible one-off in March of 1968), and indeed included it in many of his performances before and after Woodstock. The Woodstock performance is notable in being excellent, well-recorded (as compared to the audience tapes of many others), and as being poignant at the peace gathering of the baby boomers at the height of the Vietnam war. All kinds of meaning was ascribed to the performance. Wikipedia has this to say on the topic:
"Although contemporary political pundits described his interpretation as a statement against the Vietnam War, three weeks later Hendrix explained its meaning: "We're all Americans ... it was like 'Go America!'... We play it the way the air is in America today. The air is slightly static, see". Immortalized in the 1970 documentary film, Woodstock, his guitar-driven version would become part of the sixties Zeitgeist. Pop critic Al Aronowitz of The New York Post wrote: "It was the most electrifying moment of Woodstock, and it was probably the single greatest moment of the sixties." Images of the performance showing Hendrix wearing a blue-beaded white leather jacket with fringe, a red head-scarf, and blue jeans are widely regarded as iconic pictures that capture a defining moment of the era. In 2011, the editors of Guitar World placed his rendition of "The Star Spangled Banner" at Woodstock at number one in their list of his 100 greatest performances."
I agree that the SSB is among the great performances of Woodstock, but for me it is topped by Woodstock Improvisation. I would place this among his top recorded performances. Others up there would be (but not limited to) Stone Free from 2/24/69 (found on The Jimi Hendrix Concerts), Machine Gun (on Band of Gypsies), and Wild Thing (from Monterey Pop).
As to the comment from leevitalone1: "Our thoughts were he was up tripping for a couple days before going on, and either still high or very tired." I would like to comment that the book "Setting The Record Straight" suggests he was dosed on LSD the night before and worried about going on, but in the end they waited until the next morning. It is quite likely therefore that he got little or no sleep the night before, but unlikely that he was still tripping. As I watched the footage I looked for evidence that he was tripping, and I am convinced that he was not.
Concerning playing music under the influence of psychedelics, the evidence seems to suggest that things can go either way. In the case of Hendrix, Monterey would be the extreme of brilliance, and his performance at Madison Square Garden on 1/28/70 (my 6th birthday, so I was unable to attend) offers evidence of a meandering disappointment. He abandoned the concert after two songs, and those two songs were decidedly weird. That said, there is still some fascinating playing, and the audience recording is worth a listen for those interested in the topic of music and psychedelics. Generally, psychedelics act as an amplifier, and so whatever mindset you start with colors what follows. The only other factor is whether you can keep it together to actually play. I have heard some amazing music produced under such influence, so I would not dismiss any such music out of hand.
Related to earlier discussions here about the Grateful Dead, here is a list of acid tests in which the Grateful Dead or some of their members are said to have participated:
11/27/66 Santa Cruz, California (1st Acid Test - band still known as the Warlocks)
12/4/65 San Jose, CA (the first supposed performance under the name Grateful Dead)
12/11/65 Palo Alto, CA
12/18/65 Muir Beach, CA
12/24/65 Portland, Oregon
1/8/66 Fillmore, SF, CA
1/15/66 Portland, Oregon
1/22/66 Longshoreman's Hall, SF, CA
1/23/66 Longshoreman's Hall, SF, CA
1/29/66 Sound City Studios, SF, CA (only Jerry & Pigpen)
2/12/66 Compton, CA
3/12/66 Danish Center, Los Angeles, CA
3/19/66 Carthay Center, Los Angeles, CA
4/22/66 Longshoreman's Hall, SF, CA
4/23/66 Longshoreman's Hall, SF, CA
4/24/66 Longshoreman's Hall, SF, CA
7/29/66 Vancouver, BC
7/30/66 Vancouver, BC
7/31/66 Vancouver, BC
10/31/66 Winterland, San Francisco, California (Acid Test Graduation)
It is a fair bet that the band and most of the audience were tripping on LSD at all of these events, and these would not be the only times the Dead performed on psychedelics. There is a great interview with Ken Kesey and Jerry Garcia on the topic which was broadcast on May 7th, 1981 on the NBC TV show "Tomorrow Coast to Coast" with Tom Snyder. It can be found on the officially released DVD "The Tomorrow Show - Tom Snyder's Electric Kool-Aid Talk Show," and aside from being one of my all-time favorite Jerry Garcia interviews, has some great acoustic performance footage of the Dead. Here they talk specifically about the Acid Tests, and again for those who have an interest this is not to me missed. The interview can also be seen here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Egz_ex3d_s
Giving this a rating in this context is hard. I cannot go above a 2 for the surround mix, because it is a crappy surround mix. But as discussed above, this might be by design.
The DVD is an important document of an important event, and some essential music from Hendrix is included. One hopes and presumes that this is the best possible archival document of the available recordings, and the flaws cannot be blamed on this release, but rather on the source materiel. So I would not want to discourage anyone from buying this. So a 10 for the archival nature, and a 2 for the mix, averages out to a 6.
Thanks for the very detailed back story. Context is so key to all of this.
From QQ deep space
From QQ deep space
watsontr
600 Club - QQ All-Star
I was pretty certain I'd bought this but for some reason I can't find the blu ray. I expect it is still incomplete and doesn't contain the two missing songs like the CD?
leevitalone1
2K Club - QQ Super Nova
corneredcat
600 Club - QQ All-Star
sad sad...shame shame...
One of my favorite live performances is "I don't live today" in San Diego from "the Jimi Hendrix Concerts" (Also in "Kiss the sky" compilation from '84, which I have on LP- a DIGITAL master)
"Existing...nothing but existing...listening to Soul..." ...ouch!
"Existing...nothing but existing...listening to Soul..." ...ouch!
leevitalone1
2K Club - QQ Super Nova
I wonder if there isn't something more to the "holding back" of this stuff. If just being a greedy little bitch, then it just makes no sense because the people who appreciate this music are getting older now and want it more than ever now. Or perhaps it's just being an asshole?
Lots of legal reasons with the "Dan" music. If you watched the show about Dave Clark 5 you'll see Dave was smarter than most by retaining ownership of his music-lots of bands like the Stones had to fight in costly court battles for the rights to their own music later. taken advantage of by management-promoters.
I understand that Bowie was another who kept all his own rights. The Hendrix family is famous for having fought a legal battle to get the rights to Jimi's music. Unfortunately they have not been perfect stewards of the music. For instance, many of the official Experience Hendrix releases are either brickwalled or clipped. Someone told me Kramer himself condoned this, saying he thought louder was better. Maybe someone else can corroborate this?
Well, at least his family gets the money.
leevitalone1
2K Club - QQ Super Nova
These people were taken advantage of-innocent in the ways of greed-just caring about the music, and taken for the art. Immoral shit!
What I meant by holding the music hostage is that he's horrible when it comes to the production of the music...just like Jimmy Page who has ruined the Zep music..Dave Clark was WAY ahead of his time and a very intelligent man when it came to the business end of music...his band never got the credit it was due...especially in the US...
