Mac Surround off the desktop? How?

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neil wilkes

2K Club - QQ Super Nova
Joined
Feb 6, 2004
Messages
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Location
London, England
For the fruit loving friends amongst us.
I am trying to create the ultimate DVD Album formats, and the main stumbling block is Mac OSX playback.
I can already do the full DVD-A/V with MLP, DTS 24/96 & DD for DVD players, and add WMA 24/96 Lossless (or even WMA Pro if space is tight) in the ROM content.
I am aware that AAC has multichannel functionality, and QT player is supposed to be Multichannel compliant.
iTunes cannot create a multichannelAAC file.
QT Pro can only create an LPCM multichannel file.
Noone on the Mac forums seems to know or care
Does anyone here know how to add Mac support in ROM, or is it going to be a case of "screw the Mac users"?
 
I was under the impression that Macs could handle windows media files.

I have a friend that would know the answer to your question for certain. I will ask him and find out for you, if no one else gets back to you before I do.
 
Sorry, I'm not a Mac user and this may be a noob question but... Why is it important if the Mac has a program that will create multichannel aac files? If it can play them, why not just create them on a PC?

Just use Nero AAC to encode your files and they should play just fine in iTunes or QT if you give them the m4a extension (you said that iTunes and QT supported 5.1 AAC, I haven't tested it myself since I refuse to use those programs :p).

I use AAC myself to encode both stereo and 5.1 audio to store them on my hdd for easy access. I use the aforementioned Nero encoder with foobar2000 as a frontend. Dunno if this is what you're looking for, but maybe you can give it a shot.
 
I just called the Walnut Creek Apple Mac store and not only do they not sell multichannel cards, when I asked about multichannel I was told that most people don't even request multichannel. I called back and someone with more experiance said that multichannel is already built into the system, you just need an external box for around $200 - that they have in store in stock - that plugs in via firewire/USB (Windows cards won't work with Mac). I asked if it could play a multichannel Windows media file and he said it would and to just bring in the file and they would test it. So if you like I could test it for you over here at the W. C. store or perhaps there's an Apple store in your area. Here is a link that might be helpful:

http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/coreaudio/

BTW for those unfamiliar with itunes for Windows it is free and can convert up to 16 bit / 48 kHz .aiff files into .wav files quick and easy. It also has hundreds of free built in Internet radio stations and makes a nice playback device.
 
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Neil,

I've sent an email to my friend that knows the answer. I'll post a response as soon as I get it.
 
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My MOTU 828mkII came with software that was MAC only, and that's a 10 channel 24/96 box. I was kinda pissed that there was no Windows version, especially since I'm sure I paid for the software in the price of the box.

http://www.motu.com/products/motuaudio/828
 
Not sure exactly what you're asking here.... you can mix multi-channel audio in Logic Pro, no problem, and most macs have a built in stereo miniplug, that when you get a funky optical audio to toslink adaptor, play surround sound just fine. I have a 24" iMac hooked up to a technics decoder, and it plays surround like a peach. :)
 
Not sure exactly what you're asking here....

If I understand correctly Neil is trying to create a WMA 24/96 Lossless (or even WMA Pro if space is tight) file for the ROM folder of a DVD-A disc that will also play on the Mac. Can Mac play a multichannel 24 bit / 96 kHz Windows Media file? Or is there another 24 bit / 96 kHz Lossless file format that would work for both Mac and Windows. So one can play the file and not the disc.
 
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Response from my buddy:

Hey Dylan -

Sorry about the late reply here - I believe that you can create any format surround file you wish using QT pro. I would recommend using SDII, it's old and uncompressed - and I've submitted the occasional multichannel "wrapped" file using it. If you have QT pro, you should be able to export the discrete channels of audio (in this case, I'm guessing 4?) then create a QT movie type wrapper for the files (that is to say, copy and paste the 4 tracks into a new quicktime sound) Once there you can assigne where you want to point the 4 files (as per a standard 5.1 arrangement - I'm guessing you can also ommit the center and LFE tracks) This should work, provided someone has a proper interface and their quad system set up to take direct discreet input of the 4 channels. The SDII files will be uncompressed - and QT will play them back through the "correct" outputs. Given this scenario, you may also be able to substitute AAC files for the SDII's (I've never done this) It won't be part of the mpeg4 standard II AAC spec, but if you're just going to have the file play back on a mac with quicktime it might be worth trying.
 
SDII is obsolete these days - even ProTools no longer supports it.
Quicktime Pro will let me create straight LPCM Multichannel only. This just isn't what I want to do. I'm looking for a lossless compression system similar to WMA Pro, or if I must use a perceptual system, I want one that will play on a mac desktop as well as a PC one.
MP3 is not going to be a part of this, and neither is any Mac compatible stream as far as I can tell.

Nero apparently allows AC3 to AAC "conversion". Recompressing heavily compressed material is not my idea of high quality, so I'm ignoring that option too.
Surely there must be a desktop file format in multichannel for a bloody Mac?
 
Nice thought - but it's not what I am looking for!
I have a PC DAW, running Nuendo 3.2.1 so can already create & output the files to LPCM. Don't need BIAS or Quicktime to do this for me.

What I need is a codec that will play on Mac desktops, that I can create from my PC.
 
Codec

This article is on the compression/decompression algorithms used in digital media. For other uses of codec, see Codec (disambiguation).

A codec is a device or program capable of performing encoding and decoding on a digital data stream or signal. The word codec may be a combination of any of the following: 'Compressor-Decompressor', 'Coder-Decoder', or 'Compression/Decompression algorithm'.
Contents
[hide]

* 1 Description
o 1.1 Related concepts
o 1.2 Compression quality
* 2 See also
* 3 External links

[edit] Description

[edit] Related concepts

An endec is a similar (but different) concept for hardware. In the mid 20th century, a "codec" was hardware that coded analog signals into Pulse-code modulation (PCM) and decoded them back. Late in the century the name came to be applied to a class of software for converting among digital signal formats, and including compander functions.

Codecs (in the modern, software sense) encode a stream or signal for transmission, storage or encryption and decode it for viewing or editing. Codecs are often used in videoconferencing and streaming media applications. A video camera's analog-to-digital converter (ADC) converts its analog signals into digital signals, which are then passed through a video compressor for digital transmission or storage. A receiving device then runs the signal through a video decompressor, then a digital-to-analog converter (DAC) for analog display. A "codec" is a generic name for a video conferencing unit.

An audio compressor converts analog audio signals into digital signals for transmission or storage. A receiving device then converts the digital signals back to analog using an audio decompressor, for playback.

The raw encoded form of audio and video data is often called essence, to distinguish it from the metadata information that together make up the information content of the stream and any "wrapper" data that is then added to aid access to or improve the robustness of the stream.

[edit] Compression quality

Most codecs are lossy. Originally this was in order to make the compressed files small enough to be readily transmitted across non-broadband networks and stored on relatively expensive media, such as non-volatile memory and hard disk as opposed to write-once read-many formats such as CD-ROM and DVD.

There are lossless codecs but for most purposes the slight increase in quality (some would say almost imperceptible increase) is not worth the increase in data size, which is often considerable. The main exception to this is if the data is to undergo further processing (for example editing) in which case the repeated application of lossy codecs (repeated encoding and subsequent decoding) will almost certainly degrade the quality of the edited file such that it is readily identifiable (visually or audibly or both). Using more than one codec or encoding scheme whilst creating a finished product can also degrade quality significantly (however there are many situations where this is all but unavoidable).

Many codecs are designed to emphasize certain aspects of the media to be encoded. For example, a digital video (using a DV codec) of a sports event, such as baseball or soccer, needs to encode motion well but not necessarily exact colors, while a video of an art exhibit needs to perform well encoding color and surface texture. There are hundreds or even thousands of codecs ranging from those downloadable for free to ones costing hundreds of dollars or more.

Many multimedia data streams need to contain both audio and video data, and often some form of metadata that permits synchronization of the audio and video. Each of these three streams may be handled by different programs, processes, or hardware; but for the multimedia data stream to be useful in stored or transmitted form, they must be encapsulated together in a container format.

While many people explain that AVI is a codec, they are incorrect. AVI (nowadays) is a container format, which many codecs might use (although not to ISO standard). There are other well known alternative containers such as Ogg, ASF, QuickTime, RealMedia, Matroska and MP4.


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