Marantz CD-400B CD-4 Demodulator

[berninahusq]

Hi,

Just purchased a Marantz CD-400B CD-4 Demodulator through eBay. The seller was kind enough to let me pick it up from him since he lives a few miles from me.

Does anyone know anything about this unit that I should be aware of? Hopefully it works well and doesn't have the RF interference problems that my two JVC 4DD-5s have. What I like about this unit is the 4-channel tape inputs that I can feed my Tate II into and just have the 4-channel outputs from the 400B feed my two main amps.

Thanks--Ed

 

[quadgdiaz]

hi Ed

to me the Marantz CD-400B is 20 times better than those junky JVC 4DD-5's cd-4 demodulator you will be very happy with the 400B i owne 2 of them. and to make it even sound better change your cables on your turntable. thanks Gerardo

 

[The Quadfather]

There's nothing wrong with the 4DD5. Mine works great. I understand that the Marantz 400B has an automatic carrier level control system that some quaddies don't like, but I have no personal experience with it's performance.

The Quadfather

 

[AllAroundSurround]

Wher can you/ I get new cables for cd4 T.T. Havn't seen them around for cd4 anywhere!? [ie. low cap. ones that is]
Rob

 

[berninahusq]

Just picked up my Marantz CD-400B today from the eBay Seller......OH ME GAUD!!!! FINALLY CD-4 IN ALL ITS GLORY! This Marantz CD-400B with its automatic carrier level control system must make this CD-4 demodulator as fool proof and Plug-N-Play as you can get! When I first saw it I was confused why it didn't have that dreadful 30 Mhz carrier adjustment, but now I realize it does it effortlessly in the background.

Instead of mindlessly screwing around (pun intentionally intended!) with those tiny level pots for the 30Mhz carrier and level controls on my JVC 4DD-5s, on this Marantz, all you have to do is adjust the left and right balance controls on the Marantz and VIOLA! you have perfectly decoded/balanced CD-4!

I LOVE THIS AUTOMATIC CARRIER LEVEL CONTROL on this unit! And the channel separation......75% better than I've ever gotten on my "working" JVC 4DD-5.

Well worth the $26 I paid for it, kinda my last ditch effort in the world of CD-4. And the guy even threw in for FREE seventeen 1/4-inch 10 1/2 reels and one 1-inch 10 1/2 reel of tapes that he said would cost him more to ship than they were worth!

I'm sure glad I took the chance. Now I'm gonna listen to all my CD-4 records over again!

Quadfather you HAVE to get one of these. Gerardo YOU ARE RIGHT! I love this unit! And I already have my turntable outfitted with Monster interconnects so the sound is AWESOME.

Thanks all--Ed<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/grin.gif ALT=" >D">

 

[Cai Campbell]

Yep, the CD-400B sounds great! However, I sold my unit because I could not stand the auto-carrier detect feature. It works great on probably 80% of CD-4 disks, but the other 20% (most notably on those "hard to play" CD-4 disks) the auto-carrier will freak out and you'll get unwanted distortion, distortion that is not there with other "hard to calibrate" demodulators. So, it is a trade-off. Ease of use versus accuracy. I'll take accuracy every time.

On a related note, I found the Lafayette CD4 to have a much better auto-carrier detect feature than the Marantz. The Lafayette would "freak out" much less than the Marantz and worked properly on probably 95% of CD-4 disks. However, I think the Marantz is a better sounding unit.

I'm still looking for a Marantz CD400 (not the CD400B) which is the same unit but without the auto-carrier feature.

 

[berninahusq]

Thanks. Good advice. Better keep my working 4DD-5 then.

Ed

 

[The Quadfather]

I have heard that about the CD400B before, with it's automatic carrier level (ACL) problems. I have never had to fiddle with my carrier level on the 4DD5, except when I aligned it for the first time. Set it and forget it! However, it would have been nice if they had included a carrier level meter with a "green" area indicating the proper level. I simply do not experience dropouts or carrier unlock. If I do, It's time to replace the stylus. I almost bought one of the Marantz units, but I decided to back off when the bidding got competitive. But I already have two 4DD5's. If the Marantz sounds better, then OK, but I intend to stick with what is successful for me. Incidently, if the ACL on the Marantz proves to be problematic, it might be possible to convert it to manual, or change the time constant so that it reacts very slowly to changes in level, therefore improving it by not allowing a dropout to make the ACL go wild. Keep in mind that the ultimate quality of CD-4 playback is dependent on the stylus. If it skates over the modulations like a car skates over a washboard dirt road, You get crap! The demod has to have something to work with. I will admit that my second 4DD5 does not sound as good as my first one, indicating a possible need for internal alignment and free run frequency adjustment, but the first one is just fine.

The Quadfather

 

[Cai Campbell]

I finally managed to get ahold of a plain ol' Marantz CD-400 off eBay. I paid more for it than I wanted to, though. I hope I didn't shoot myself in the foot by talking about it here!

In any event, I hope it turns out to be a sufficient replacement for my great-sounding yet finicky Panasonic SE-405H. I'll keep ya all posted.

 

[quadgdiaz]

:lol: hi Cai

well the panasonic SE-405H CD-4 demodulator is not bad at all, i used to have one on my system, but when i put the Marantz CD-400B that's all i need it for my CD-4 set up, i don't have the any problem with mine it sound great, and i have tried most CD-4's demodulator(sansui,pioneer,technics) even the junky JVC 4DD-5 but so far the 400B is the best (to me) but let me know on the CD-400 just in case my 2 CD-400B breaks,???? quadbob it's been working on a re-cap 400B but he ran into trouble. so happy XMAS to ALL Gerardo

 

[The Quadfather]

Once again I will defend the 4DD5. It is a fine demodulator. You must have a broken one.

The Quadfather

 

[Cai Campbell]

I love my SE-405H, except for the fact that it doesn't like to stay calibrated. I've owned four of these things and they all behave the same. They sound AWESOME with a fresh calibration, but let them sit unused for awhile and they don't perform as well as they should (sometimes radar light will fluctuate, sometimes channel separation will be poor, etc.) All it takes is a fresh calibration and you're back on track. But you know what? I'm tired of playing that game! I just want to set it and forget it!

I've wondered if I left the power on all the time if that would keep them from falling out of tune. Perhaps a recap is needed. I dunno. Well, we'll see how the CD-400 holds up.

 

[The Quadfather]

The recap would probably do it. Like I said, I never have to adjust my JVC 4DD5. I don't even readjust when swapping stylii. It just doesn't ever need it. Maybe the Marantz sounds better, I don't know, but I am completely satisfied with my 4DD5.

The Quadfather

 

[Cai Campbell]

I've mentioned this before, but I have done some serious listening tests between the Panasonic SE-405H and Marantz CD-400B. I think the SE-405H sounds better. It has better top-end extension than the CD-400B. They are very close, but the SE-405H does sound better. However, I'm willing to sacrafice a tiny bit of top-end for stable performance.

I've never tried a 4DD5 but I don't think there is any reason to bad-mouth it. Given the opportunity, I would certainly audition one! In any event, I would tend to agree that based on your own experience, that Gerardo probably got hold of a bad unit. You can't judge this equipment off one unit, especially considering their age. That is why I went through four SE-405H units before I determined the calibration stability was an issue with the model and not a single unit!

 

[bmoura]

Speaking of top end extension, Lou Dorren, the person behind the QSI chip in the Technics demodulator actually liked the Heathkit CD-4 Demodulator over the Technics one. He said it had more top end than the Technics.

But the Heathkit is probably harder to find than the others these days.

 

[quadgdiaz]

hi Cai

(that Gerardo probably got hold of a bad unit)

no i had 5 of this things (4DD-5) and all sounded like crap we (quadbob & i) check them out and we both agree that they are the worst CD-4 demodulators right along with the sansui so i thru them away. maybe i have a GOOD 400B cause i don't have the carrier problem ???????????????? thanks Gerardo

 

[The Quadfather]

Threw them away??? Why didn't you sell them on Ebay? If you don't appreciate them, someone else might. These pieces are in limited supply.

The Quadfather

 

[proufo]

Remember what Greg Bogantz posted at the other site/mailing lists:

"In my experience, the JVC 4DD-5 is the best consumer demodulator ever offered to the public. "

"As a designer of CD-4 recording and playback hardware, I can tell you
that virtually no demodulator even approaches the actual performance limits
specified for CD-4. Most of them are tremendously rolled off in the
demodulated carrier channels (and have inaccurate ANRS tracking) in an
attempt to reduce the system noise. I specifically developed modifications
to the JVC 4DD-5 which made it come very close to the system specs. I still
use mine tuned this way. It sounds dramatically more wide-band with much
better directionality at high frequencies, but it is noisier than the stock
units. When I would make test cuts in lacquers and compare the playback to
the master tape, it was very hard to tell which I was listening to - the
system design is actually very good. So I prefer to hear the additional
noise if it means better fidelity otherwise. Most people, however, don't
like the noisiness and prefer the detuned units that were universally sold
to the public by all the manufacturers. The Technics models are among the
most dull sounding of them all. Even if you manage to set up these consumer
demodulators to the factory specs, they are designed to be dull sounding."

"I was afraid that someone would ask for the 4DD-5 mod details. I am usually quite diligent about saving these kinds of data, but apparently I left my file on this work at the RCA Records lab when we closed the record plant in Indianapolis in 1988. I have looked for it and can't find it. However, I do have the original sketch-matic for the 4DD-5. AND I have the factory sketch for the CD4-10. And if I get motivated enough, I could reverse engineer my 4DD-5 and find out what the parts values changes are. However, setting the ANRS tracking is an equally important part of the final tweak. It seems to me that the procedure given in the 4DD-5 manual is not correct, but I can't remember what the proper way to do it is. But, again, I could probably figure it out by measuring what my 4DD-5 is now adjusted for. I just need to get motivated. But I've got too many antique phonographs and radios that are calling me to fix them (my current main hobby)."

 

[quadgdiaz]

hi Quadfather

i did sold one on ebay and the guy send me a nasty email about the piece of crap he got,(there wasn't anything wrong with the unit) he didn't like the sound and separation, so i refunded all of his money, and i didn't want to take any more chances on getting negative feedback on ebay so i threw them away, i did sold my others CD-4's on ebay with no problems so the JVC doesn't worth my time to post on ebay, heck the last one sold for $9.00 if i'm not mistaken. thanks Gerardo:lol:

 

[The Quadfather]

Well, I'm still convinced there was something wrong with your units. They may have been earlier models. I don't know. Mine sounds quite good. I do know that if certain capacitors fail in the preamp section, it will pick up noise from itself and the outside. I have had this happen. It is fixable though. I might try the Marantz in the future, but for now my 4DD5 sounds just fine. Most of these various demods use the same subcarrier decoder circuits anyway, with minor difference. The Technics models are an exception.

The Quadfather