Marillion-Fear 5.1 DVD BLU-RAY SETS

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César

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I'm still waiting for my DVD, almost 10 days since shipped. I've listened a couple of times to the legal download and it's a really good record. Mark Kells has nailed the keyboard background once more

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svengaleekie

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I got my copy delivered by the postie yesterday and though it says 5.0 on the back it sounds like 5.1 to me and my Oppo says it's 5.1, only listened to it twice in surround so far and once in the car and I'm getting used to it.
 

Simon_LDT

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Reports from the marillion forum are that the SACD contains a different mix to the DVD-V version...
 

RuudMans

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Pretty naff 5.1 SACD mix. Sounds more like a badly done stereo to matrix surround job, than a discrete 5.1 mix. Rumour has it the record label is responsible for that SACD "5.1-mix", not the band.
Apparently, like Simon_LDT mentioned earlier, the DVD contains a different, (much?) better surround mix.
Oh well, can't trust your record labels. Frank Zappa always said as much...
 
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Simon_LDT

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Yep, reports are that the DVD and blu-ray editions feature the actual 5.1 mix and those are much better (some discrete stuff happening in rears at times and only vocals in centre channel). The SACD must just be some kind of monstrosity created from the stereo mix, which is why it has all sorts in the centre channel.
 

colsky

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Marillion's manager has now posted this on their fans' forum:

This '5.0' mix or whatever it is, was not done by us, As only about 20 people in the world will probably buy this SACD anyway, I am not going to let it concern me.

Now we know, but what a farce :mad: And the band's manager isn't concerned by a crap product going out under the band's name. What the fuck :ugham:

My copy of the sacd has been delivered today, so I will (not) look forward to giving this a listen when I get home from work.
 

rtbluray

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Marillion's manager has now posted this on their fans' forum:

This '5.0' mix or whatever it is, was not done by us, As only about 20 people in the world will probably buy this SACD anyway, I am not going to let it concern me.

Now we know, but what a farce :mad: And the band's manager isn't concerned by a crap product going out under the band's name. What the fuck :ugham:

My copy of the sacd has been delivered today, so I will (not) look forward to giving this a listen when I get home from work.
If only 20 people will buy the SACD, then why the f**k did they even bother releasing it?
Hey, everyone who bought this SACD should return it and use that money towards Coldplay's new 5.1 Blu-Ray instead! ;)


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fredblue

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Wow.. how lovely to see such contempt for Hi-Res/Surround/SACD people (no change there, then.. but it still "hurts"..)..

fwiw, I've got the SACD coming anyway (just in case it gets withdrawn and the 20 people who got suckered in end up with a collectors item, albeit with some phoney piece of shit mix on it!)..

..it does make you wonder quite what's going on.. first we get Beach Boys SACDs with phantom (pun intended) or rather unexplained and mysterious MultiCh versions (presumed decoded but from what and with what and by whom, I guess we'll never know!) and now this Marillion SACD which has some alternate surround mix from the one officially sanctioned by the band and their management that's available on DVD..

Weird goings on eh..!? :alienrob:
 

svengaleekie

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When this guy said only 20 people would buy the sacd, of course he meant 20,000, but that's just a drop in the ocean to him, there are plenty more fans out there, aren't there? many of whom will download the song off the internet and won't be spending a penny on it. Arse
 

peterzach

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Check out this rubish from the label's website:

http://www.ear-music.net/en/label/

Quote,"Further to this earMUSIC is committed to forward-thinking, using new technology to push the boundaries of existing physical and digital formats."

I can just hear the label exec's brainstorming:
lets see we have this Sacd format(has multiple layers) we can use as well
we can put a surround on the same disk as the stereo layer
how do we make a surround?
it can't be that hard
Who should we get to help us get this done?
Hey there's that Silverline company, made alot of surrounds, lets get them to help us.
Great idea.......
 

fredblue

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Check out this rubish from the label's website:

http://www.ear-music.net/en/label/

Quote,"Further to this earMUSIC is committed to forward-thinking, using new technology to push the boundaries of existing physical and digital formats."

I can just hear the label exec's brainstorming:
lets see we have this Sacd format(has multiple layers) we can use as well
we can put a surround on the same disk as the stereo layer
how do we make a surround?
it can't be that hard
Who should we get to help us get this done?
Hey there's that Silverline company, made alot of surrounds, lets get them to help us.
Great idea.......
Too right..!! :upthumb

..and then, when words got round the surround on the SACDs a duffer and nobody else buys this SACD, they'll say; "sorry folks, no more surround.. surround doesn't sell, you see.. we gave you surround and you just didn't buy it.."

:ugham:
 

splinter7

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"When this guy said only 20 people would buy the sacd, of course he meant 20,000, but that's just a drop in the ocean to him, there are plenty more fans out there, aren't there? many of whom will download the song off the internet and won't be spending a penny on it. Arse"

No, I think almost literally that the band's manager thinks the number of SACDs sold will be miniscule. Maybe not "20" but she certainly thinks it not more than at most a couple of 100. The statement really supports the popular fan forum belief that the band/management does not strategically think high-rez and 5.1 are key areas to focus on either from a retail or artistic perspective.

That the band's manger admittedly writes that she was unaware of the commercially licensed SACD having a multi-channel mix; leads one to think that the band did not feel the need to exert the effort of closely reviewing the final retail product and/or did not negotiate those terms in the distribution deal. Either way, she doesn't seem concerned that:

1: There is "official" product being sold at retail that may contain an unsanctioned upmix of the album in 5.1.
2: There is enough interest in the SACD / Multi Mix to worry about the negative perceptions of the product.

It does though seem strange though.
 
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fredblue

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Blimey.. How odd... :confused:

So.. somebody in the band, or their producer/engineer must be pro-surround/Hi-Res and wants this to happen and has the influence to make it so, or it just wouldn't happen, would it..?

Wonder if the label that licensed the album for SACD (Ear, is it?) are aware the people they acquired the rights from have zero interest (or faith!) in SACD as a product.. maybe that's why Ear just made up any old MultiCh mix for the SACD, they already knew the band/their representatives didn't give a toss and thought what the hell..!? :D
 

rtbluray

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I have never purchased a Marillion release, and if this trend of terrible and/or over-priced surround releases continues, I'll keep my money for other more worthwhile releases.
 

RuudMans

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The fact that the band's management dismisses an official product as something that only "about 20 people wil buy", comes across as very disrespectful towards their fan base. I am "one of the only 20" that have bought it, and I enjoy the album's music. But this whole attitude that the management now displays towards what they obviously consider an inferior product, is disgraceful.
As somebody else pointed out: why bother releasing it anyway, if you don't believe in what you are selling?
Marillion: you have dropped the ball here big time. As a long time fan (since 1983!) I consider this attitude an insult.
Shame on you.
 

colsky

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The fact that the band's management dismisses an official product as something that only "about 20 people wil buy", comes across as very disrespectful towards their fan base. I am "one of the only 20" that have bought it, and I enjoy the album's music. But this whole attitude that the management now displays towards what they obviously consider an inferior product, is disgraceful.
As somebody else pointed out: why bother releasing it anyway, if you don't believe in what you are selling?
Marillion: you have dropped the ball here big time. As a long time fan (since 1983!) I consider this attitude an insult.
Shame on you.
Completely agree.

I listened to the SACD last night, and I agree with what others have written about it. There is stuff coming out of the rears, but the fronts have a weirdly narrow soundstage, with vocals, drums and bass all coming out of the centre. On the plus side the stereo layer of the SACD does sound good, and the album is excellent. Also, they've managed to get the surround mix out in time for the Grammy's to give Coldplay some competition :violin !!
 

mattB2

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I know I shouldn't be surprised by record executive logic but why bother making a separate "surround" mix when there is another surround mix available and, as Audio Fidelity and Mobile Fidelity are proving, there is also a market for stereo-only SACDs. From the "management" comments made it seems the only thing they have achieved is to upset buyers with false promises.

By the way, does anyone know if the DVD version is still available anywhere?
 

splinter7

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The "official - band produced" 5.1 mix that exists on the DVD and BluRay are not available via retail.

The band's Pledge Music Campaign offered the 5.1 mix as an exclusive to supporting the pre-order campaign. Originally, the mix was to be exclusive to uber expensive "Ultimate BoxSet". They then found pity on their small band of 5.1 fans who couldn't commit to the uber set by deciding to include a compressed DVD version on the median level "Special Edition" pledge.

It does not appear that the band/management has any intention of going any farther back on their word regarding releasing the "official" 5.1 mix to the retail channels. As of the moment, the Pledge sets are not being sold anywhere.

---------
The band's manager apologized on their forum today "for being snippy" after a few people wrote taking offense to her comments and cavalier attitude on the SACD issue. She claims she meant to estimate the sales of SACDs to 200 and has since edited out her initial comments. She states that the band had no involvement in the multi mix used by Ear Music and still shows little concern for the issue. She advises that those unhappy return it to Ear. Didn't offer any support in helping that be accomplished though.

--------
I did receive my Pledge edition yesterday.. On first pass, I listened to the stereo and found it one of the band's more solid efforts. Afraid to give the 5.1 a spin. Normally, I would advocate for the uninitiated to give it a listen but can't find it in me as the lack of concern by them just leaves a sour taste in mouth
 

splinter7

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I finally had the proper time to sit and listen to the "official" 5.1 DTS Mix on the Special Edition DVD. It is a shame that the SACD doesn't have this mix.
Phenomenal improvement over the past Marillion efforts in 5.1!!!!!!!

It isn't perfect but it is immersive with discrete placements of keyboards, effects, and some vocals to the rears.
I am perceiving the front soundstage coming across pretty narrow on the guitar & drum end but the keyboards are very spacious.

On the negative side, the center channel runs hot, hot, hot. I normally run my levels at -2 db Fronts / -1.5 db Center / 0 db Rears. I had to drop the center to -6 db to find the balance I like across the front soundspace.
It worked well for the first two songs and then the vocal disappeared and I had to bump it up to -3. Annoying but still an enjoyable listen!
 
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