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quadaholic

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As I live on the 'wrong' side of a hill I need a high gain roof top antenna & booster to get DAB, there are 2 DAB radio stations I tend to listen to, Planet Rock & BBC Radio 6. Planet Rock is on DAB and broadcast in :eek: MONO! yet in stereo on the internet, but the internet version has rather more adverts for Gambling firms which annoy me! Even though I live in a poor reception area, FM reception is better, no DAB digital burbling brook sounds.
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Yes DAB is dreadful. The UK was an early adopter and now we are stuck with this ancient technology. DAB audio is indeed encoded in MP2. It wasn't too bad to start with when there were just a small number of BBC stations operating at high bit rates, but a huge number of commercial stations have grown up over the years up occupying the available bandwidth at the expense of bit rate. A later version, DAB+, is licenced for use in the UK with aacPlus HE v2 encoding which is marginally less ghastly. However, only a small percentage of stations use it, and none of the BBC networks unfortunately. Thankfully very high quality FM is still very much the mainstay of the UK radio system.

I very much doubt anyone will have tried transmitting matrixed quad over DAB - why would they? No one under 60 has ever heard of such a thing! But I've found if you feed the low bit rate stuff into an Involve SM you can get some unpleasant burbling noises from the rear channels.
For what it's worth BBC 6 has rebroadcast the Genesis 78 show at least once, and while the audio seemed to be a little messy the encoding was still in decent-ish state. Also, XRT in chicago has broadcast at least one encoded show digitally and it seemed to be pretty well intact. Having said that, lossy sources do tend to start sounding worse and more the more you try to decode them.
 

Owen Smith

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Yes DAB is dreadful. The UK was an early adopter and now we are stuck with this ancient technology. DAB audio is indeed encoded in MP2. It wasn't too bad to start with when there were just a small number of BBC stations operating at high bit rates, but a huge number of commercial stations have grown up over the years up occupying the available bandwidth at the expense of bit rate. A later version, DAB+, is licenced for use in the UK with aacPlus HE v2 encoding which is marginally less ghastly. However, only a small percentage of stations use it, and none of the BBC networks unfortunately. Thankfully very high quality FM is still very much the mainstay of the UK radio system.
The reason so few UK stations use DAB+ is because there is a large installed base of DAB radios (including in cars) and tuners (including my Arcam DT91 FM/DAB tuner) that can't handle the codec for DAB+. So if you broadcast in it you are cutting yourself off from some listeners. This makes it completely unacceptable to the BBC with it's public service mandate.
 

kfbkfb

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Drifting OT (some - still surround sound):

Digital TV here uses DD for audio and most TV shows are produced w/DD 5.1, IIRC, DVB digital TV also uses DD, have there been any audio only broadcasts w/DVB digital TV using DD [4.0/5.1] of discrete (or matrix decoded, possibly matrix H) quad/surround sound?


Kirk Bayne
 

fizzywiggs41

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BB APRIL 16TH 1977 PG 45

Hiversum, Holland : ["Dutch may test BBC "Q" System"]


-Technicians of Dutch Radio , NOS , have been asked to test a new BBC Transmitting system for Quadraphonic Radio programs. The system known as 424, Matrix H is soon to go into operation.
This system makes it possible to transmit Quadraphonic programs via an FM Transmitter . In order to get good reception listeners need , four speakers and a decoder . The system is compatible, which means that Radio programs can be received in mono and stereo.
Early tests by Dutch technicians received positive results . The BBC demonstrated the new system at a Radio program Commision of The European Broadcasting Union , held recently in Paris. The BBC System is one of three advanced Matrix systems currently undergoing subjective listening evaluations by the FCC research lab in Guildford ,Maryland.
 

fizzywiggs41

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BB April 23rd 1977 pg 6+ 53

BBC AIRING "Q"CASTS IN MATRIX H

The BBC will give the world's first quadraphonic broadcast in it's Matrix H system on April 30th ,to launch a years long series of experimental programs.
The Quadcasts follow two on air tests last year using Sansui QS matrix encoding by the International Broadcast Authority , on Radio Manchester in the U K (April) , and Radio Clyde ,Scotland (July).
Programs include works by Elgar and Mahler as well as Radio One Pop Concerts. The programs go out on Radio One and Radio Three .
BBC H is the official name of the system , and engineers have been working on it since 1972 .
It's undergoing subjective listening tests by the FCC ,a.ong with SQ and QS systems , and is to be tested by Dutch , NOS Radio . It had a previous Demonstration at the E.B.U. in Paris recently at the Radio Program Commission .


.
 

fizzywiggs41

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FWIW , anyone interested in receiving a very good broadcast in Matrix H....there is the

PHIL MANZANERA-801 November 77 live in the studio with 4 quad tracks ,made available by someone on UTube.

Just use the search engine on utube , Phil MANZANERA-801 BBC MATRIX H ..... and it should pop up for your download ability.

This is a rare recording in quad which features the song "OUT OF THE BLUE" not available anywhere else.
Which makes it highly collectible.

😀
 

DuncanS

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FWIW , anyone interested in receiving a very good broadcast in Matrix H....there is the

PHIL MANZANERA-801 November 77 live in the studio with 4 quad tracks ,made available by someone on UTube.

Just use the search engine on utube , Phil MANZANERA-801 BBC MATRIX H ..... and it should pop up for your download ability.

This is a rare recording in quad which features the song "OUT OF THE BLUE" not available anywhere else.
Which makes it highly collectible.

😀
As my cassette tape of this is flood damaged & unplayable I thought great. Unfortunately to do a download (in the UK anyway) YouTube wants you to sign up for the 'free' service which needs a credit card number, then automatically grabs £11.99 a month if you forget, which I would! - inertial selling, ugh! :(
 

par4ken

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As my cassette tape of this is flood damaged & unplayable I thought great. Unfortunately to do a download (in the UK anyway) YouTube wants you to sign up for the 'free' service which needs a credit card number, then automatically grabs £11.99 a month if you forget, which I would! - inertial selling, ugh! :(
Here is one easy way to record the audio off of You Tube.
 

Soundfield

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BB April 23rd 1977 pg 6+ 53

The Quadcasts follow two on air tests last year using Sansui QS matrix encoding by the International Broadcast Authority , on Radio Manchester in the U K (April) , and Radio Clyde ,Scotland (July).
There was no such thing as the International Broadcast Authority (I think BB must have made it up). They probably meant the The Independent Broadcasting Authority which from1972 was the regulator in the UK for commercial broadcasters. Radio Manchester and Radio Clyde were such commercial stations and so had nothing to do with the BBC or it's quad trials.
 

fizzywiggs41

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As my cassette tape of this is flood damaged & unplayable I thought great. Unfortunately to do a download (in the UK anyway) YouTube wants you to sign up for the 'free' service which needs a credit card number, then automatically grabs £11.99 a month if you forget, which I would! - inertial selling, ugh! :(


Hmmm....... that's one way to belittle followers. A cash grab !!
 

fizzywiggs41

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There was no such thing as the International Broadcast Authority (I think BB must have made it up). They probably meant the The Independent Broadcasting Authority which from1972 was the regulator in the UK for commercial broadcasters. Radio Manchester and Radio Clyde were such commercial stations and so had nothing to do with the BBC or it's quad trials.


Oh yes ,there are the odd typos in BB . Some are obvious if you know what it is should be written.
 

kfbkfb

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It turns out that my daily surround sound "experience" is mostly created surround sound (matrix decoders - DPL & DynaQuad) [CD-4 is troublesome, MCH-SACD isn't currently connected].

I know that a QS decoder was altered to build a matrix H decoder, is a matrix H decoder any good at creating surround sound like a QS or DynaQuad decoder is (I don't recall reading that a matrix H decoder is good at creating surround sound from any random stereo content)?


Kirk Bayne
 

Soundfield

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Oh yes ,there are the odd typos in BB . Some are obvious if you know what it is should be written.
Yes, I’ve noticed that BB ‘reports’ about UK stories were riddled with errors. I guess, as they never had a UK readership, they didn’t have any staff here and all such reports were, at best, second hand clippings from other sources or edited press releases.
 

par4ken

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It turns out that my daily surround sound "experience" is mostly created surround sound (matrix decoders - DPL & DynaQuad) [CD-4 is troublesome, MCH-SACD isn't currently connected].

I know that a QS decoder was altered to build a matrix H decoder, is a matrix H decoder any good at creating surround sound like a QS or DynaQuad decoder is (I don't recall reading that a matrix H decoder is good at creating surround sound from any random stereo content)?


Kirk Bayne
I wouldn't think so, at least not as good as a QS decoder. The modification or adaptor added to a QS decoder produced a 58° or 60° phase lead in the right channel. The L & R inputs to the decoder must also be swapped. That shifts the Matrix H locus (as plotted on the Scheiber Sphere) so that it closely lines up with that of QS. Now Matrix H can be decoded via QS. The alignment isn't perfect, that would require a purpose built decoder.
 

fizzywiggs41

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16539327761714450789898089148767.jpg


And this is loci of H on the Scheiber Sphere .
 

DuncanS

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FWIW , anyone interested in receiving a very good broadcast in Matrix H....there is the

PHIL MANZANERA-801 November 77 live in the studio with 4 quad tracks ,made available by someone on UTube.

Just use the search engine on utube , Phil MANZANERA-801 BBC MATRIX H ..... and it should pop up for your download ability.

This is a rare recording in quad which features the song "OUT OF THE BLUE" not available anywhere else.
Which makes it highly collectible.

😀
Decodes well in Involve 4.0 (QS mode) with the SM2, much more adventurous mix than the Genesis Knebworth Quad broadcast. I recorded this originally on cassette about a year before I got my Akai 4000DS R-to-R, and if it was repeated I missed it!
 
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