Matrix Quad CD's

[steelydave]

Project 3 was never a single-inventory quad label, they did dedicated stereo mixes of pretty much their whole catalog, maybe with the exception of a handful that were specifically made for quad like that Q4 test record.

Additionally, they didn't start putting out matrix quad LPs until 1971 or 1972, but their first stereo releases were from January 1967 (Enoch Light's Spanish Strings was the first one) so the first 50 or so titles in the Project 3 catalog were available in stereo only for nearly 4 years before they came out in quad.

If CDs are from a matrix quad master it should be immediately apparent when decoded, as all the Project 3 stuff is very "4 corner discrete" with various brass, voice and percussion sections pinned to the corners of the room, and often call and response sections will answer each other from diagonal directions.

The upshot of this is that you can't take for granted that any Project 3 released on CD is matrix encoded - it's just as likely (or probably more likely) that it's from the stereo mixes.

 

[kfbkfb]

Yes, I was wondering about that, I noticed a mono mix of the 1967 "Kites are Fun" album in addition to the Stereo-4 mix, looks like I'll have to get out my EVX-4 and try my CD (and maybe I'll buy an mp3 from the album [which is probably from the stereo mix] and compare them thru the EVX-4).


Kirk Bayne

 

[artwwweb]

Ron , This is what my Epic/Sony/Brother cassette says on the Surf's Up recording from the 80's.
(But of course since then Desper has given his Virtual Surround explanation ,re not quad)View attachment 79370

Wow, a cassette with 2" @ 30ips? That's a mighty cassette. I thought it would always be open reel. And on batteries? Doesn't that cause playback speed issues? I.e as the batteries lose power the speed slows down - so playback gradually speeds up. And 'toy' mixing console?

 

[4-earredwonder]

Wow, a cassette with 2" @ 30ips? That's a mighty cassette. I thought it would always be open reel. And on batteries? Doesn't that cause playback speed issues? I.e as the batteries lose power the speed slows down - so playback gradually speeds up. And 'toy' mixing console?

I'm certain those long lasting batteries outlasted the format!!!!!!

 

[par4ken]

Ron , This is what my Epic/Sony/Brother cassette says on the Surf's Up recording from the 80's.
(But of course since then Desper has given his Virtual Surround explanation ,re not quad)View attachment 79370

Notice that it says that it may be enjoyed quadraphonically not that is is actually quad! The quad implication is likely due to quad's popularity at the time and to misconceptions by Mr. Desper's own record company. I see no mention of the "Spazializer" at all!

 

[kfbkfb]

Maybe the (unusual) album production notes are just to humor individuals who actually read them (like me).

(although, batteries mean no added 60Hz or 50Hz hum)


Kirk Bayne

 

[artwwweb]

Maybe the (unusual) album production notes are just to humor individuals who actually read them (like me).

(although, batteries mean no added 60Hz or 50Hz hum)


Kirk Bayne

I did wonder if there was a bit of invention going on. Or perhaps the sleevenote writer just used cassette to mean 'tape'.

 

[fizzywiggs41]

I have several of the early, EV-encoded Ovation LP's. They sound excellent when played through the Surround Master, in the Involve 4.1 mode.

Well ,
I kinda ment CD 's .

 

[fizzywiggs41]

Project 3 was never a single-inventory quad label, they did dedicated stereo mixes of pretty much their whole catalog, maybe with the exception of a handful that were specifically made for quad like that Q4 test record.

Additionally, they didn't start putting out matrix quad LPs until 1971 or 1972, but their first stereo releases were from January 1967 (Enoch Light's Spanish Strings was the first one) so the first 50 or so titles in the Project 3 catalog were available in stereo only for nearly 4 years before they came out in quad.

If CDs are from a matrix quad master it should be immediately apparent when decoded, as all the Project 3 stuff is very "4 corner discrete" with various brass, voice and percussion sections pinned to the corners of the room, and often call and response sections will answer each other from diagonal directions.

The upshot of this is that you can't take for granted that any Project 3 released on CD is matrix encoded - it's just as likely (or probably more likely) that it's from the stereo mixes.

Yes that's my impression as well. Enoch Light was a perfectionist when it came to his quad releases ,so one would expect the same with his Stereo releases.
The only query I would have ...is why some(If not many) ,of the Project 3 Stereo 8 CASE Covers stated "wrap around sound" ?
I saw maybe 2 like that , but they also stated Stereo 8 .
As to the Cassettes, I don't think I ever came across any.

And like you state ,Steely ,you should know immediately if a CD from Project 3 is quad ,as they were well recorded and produced in all 4 corners ,as is my experience with their Quad encoded albums .

 

[fizzywiggs41]

Notice that it says that it may be enjoyed quadraphonically not that is is actually quad! The quad implication is likely due to quad's popularity at the time and to misconceptions by Mr. Desper's own record company. I see no mention of the "Spazializer" at all!

Personally I think he may have left an indication to the new label(Reprise) as to his new recording methodology causing a Surround effect.
So they assumed as with The Flame he did tracks in Dynaquad (or existing compatible matrices).

 

[jaybird100]

Well ,
I kinda ment CD 's .

I can't say I've seen any CD's of the early Ovation quad albums. I haven;t looked; does Discogs list them as having been available?

 

[fizzywiggs41]

I can't say I've seen any CD's of the early Ovation quad albums. I haven;t looked; does Discogs list them as having been available?

I would assume some should be. I just checked via Google and Rich Mountain Tower is on cd on a couple sites.


Edit: And Hollins and Starr -Sidewalks Talking ,cd has been issued on lion records.

 

[national-kid]

Personally, I've never come across a work that feels surround sound on a Dolby Surround CD.
It is very doubtful that the Dolby Surround CD is really a Dolby Surround encoded from an MTR sound source. (Except for sound effects and Tomita's works ...)
What do you think, guys?

Returning to the story, the Spazializer is one of the effectors that crosstalks the delayed sound (the left and right sounds become natural when you listen with headphones).
By the way, the Spazializer is claimed to be compatible with Dolby Surround etc. (some are displayed as Surround Sound) and is clearly stated.
However, I think that Spazializer and Dolby Surround etc. are almost incompatible ...
What do you think, guys?

 

[fizzywiggs41]

Personally, I've never come across a work that feels surround sound on a Dolby Surround CD.
I'm wondering if it's really Dolby Surround (except for sound effects and Tomita's work)...)
What do you think, guys?

Returning to the story, the Spazializer is one of the effectors that crosstalks the delayed sound (the left and right sounds become natural when you listen with headphones).
By the way, the Spazializer is claimed to be compatible with Dolby Surround etc. (some are displayed as Surround Sound) and is clearly stated.
However, I think that Spazializer and Dolby Surround etc. are almost incompatible ...
What do you think, guys?

Follow me to latest Dolby cd I'll bump the site.

 

[ChristopherLees]

Ron , This is what my Epic/Sony/Brother cassette says on the Surf's Up recording from the 80's.
(But of course since then Desper has given his Virtual Surround explanation ,re not quad)View attachment 79370

The original lp cover on the early pressing runs did not have any quad information written on it..it was added later on by the record company, while Stephen Desper was in Australia on tour with Frank Zappa.
Theres a post here somewhere where Stephen talks about how sneaky it was to do that, just to try and get extra sales for the lp… it still doesn’t make it a quadraphonic lp

 

[jaybird100]

I would assume some should be. I just checked via Google and Rich Mountain Tower is on cd on a couple sites.


Edit: And Hollins and Starr -Sidewalks Talking ,cd has been issued on lion records.

Unfortunately, that doesn't necessarily guarantee the CD's are quad. As for Rich Mountain Tower, Discogs doesn't show anything on CD of the album released on Ovation. Before Ovation went to quad, many of the titles that were part of the early quad releases were available in stereo, with different mixes, and with an OV prefix on the catalog number. The quads were OVQD.

 

[fizzywiggs41]

Unfortunately, that doesn't necessarily guarantee the CD's are quad. As for Rich Mountain Tower, Discogs doesn't show anything on CD of the album released on Ovation. Before Ovation went to quad, many of the titles that were part of the early quad releases were available in stereo, with different mixes, and with an OV prefix on the catalog number. The quads were OVQD.

FWIW some are now on different labels no longer associated with Ovation.
I googled 3 titles and found out they are all on cd and all within a 4 minute space of time.

Laura Yager has a CD box set that says all her studio recording s ,but I'm not certain the quad was transferred .

 

[fizzywiggs41]

Kirk did you find any of the early Ovation's ? On line ?
Here is a numeric listing ,showing the first few were EV-4.
Photo from Quad Inc.

View attachment 79368

Although it's not a total guarantee, as they originally were stereo....you'll notice that asterisk on the listings ....means they went "single inventory quad".

 

[fizzywiggs41]

Sq encoded cd by Don Young/Skip Godwin .
Originally released in quad SQ matrix back in 1977 with no separate stereo release.


FWIW This is an excellent music cd in the New Orleans Jazz style.

(Gotta save it for my wake)

 

[JediJoker]

Sq encoded cd by Don Young/Skip Godwin .
Originally released in quad SQ matrix back in 1977 with no separate stereo release.


FWIW This is an excellent music cd in the New Orleans Jazz style.

(Gotta save it for my wake)

Didn't realize this was SQ-encoded. Pretty sure my parents have this in their collection. I'll have to try decoding it!