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Matrix Quad CD's

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humprof

1K Club - QQ Shooting Star
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I need to add an asterisk here. Turns out the Dolby Surround setting actually does a pretty good job with Henry Franklin's The Skipper (drums & cymbals in the rears along with, on the louder tracks, some horns, phased-shifted (?) and softer than they are in the fronts). But with Walter Bishop Jr.'s Coral Keys, not so much. I'm tempted to say that the latter, from 1971, is not in fact QS-encoded, whereas the former, from 1972, is. (The catalog number for Coral Keys is BJ/2 and the cover says "Stereo"; The Skipper's catalog number is BJQD/7 and the cover says "Compatible 4-Channel Stereo/Quadraphonic." So maybe, pace Cai Campbell's claim, only some of the original catalog was recorded in quad?

Thanks for tracking that down, John. Sadly, my new(ish) Marantz NR1607 seems to offer only a plain-vanilla one-size-fits-all "Dolby Surround" setting. I think that setting is supposed to be backwards-compatible for all generations of genuine Dolby encoding, but for these Black Jazz discs it seems to channel an awful lot of info into the center channel and adds noticeable "breathing" and other artifacts in the rears. I'll dig deeper into the setup menus and see if it's possible to fine-tune.
 

Scott65

701 Club - QQ All-Star
Joined
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750
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Yes! Well, kind of.. :eek:

Involve can now present QQ members only with two unique switching options for the Surround Master.

You can choose..

Either (A)
- 1.) SQ "by the book" decoding
+ 2.) Involve/QS,

or (B)
- 1.) SQ "Vinyl" decoding
(superb decoding of old SQ records)
+ 2.) Involve/QS,

or (C)
- 1.) SQ "by the book" decoding
+ 2.) SQ "Vinyl" decoding
(with NO Involve/QS.. but then you couldn't decode QS encoded music, etc.. not entirely sure why you'd want to do this but some users may want the "by the book" SQ decoding plus the SQ decoding for vinyl, I guess..).
what's the difference between SQ 'by the book' and 'vinyl'? I bought an SQ SM and presumably got the 'by the book' decoding - which sounds very good on some youtube SQ uploads I have tried. I don't have any SQ vinyl and will most likely never acquire any so it's probably academic for me. :unsure:
 
Joined
Mar 25, 2014
Messages
297
Location
Massachusetts
During extensive listening tests between some QQ members, and the guys at Involve Audio, it was determined that decoding SQ records exactly by the book was not quite the same as what the revered vintage SQ decoders were doing. I think it had something to do with the side effect of the entire matrixing process, and that the physical result of matrixing was not exactly as expected by the book, and then the effectiveness of the decoders - whether even the best were hitting the nail on the head back in the day. So, Involve came out with SQ Script and SQ Vinyl.

There was quite a lengthy discussion about it when QQer's started getting their hands on the Surround Masters and started doing A/B comparisons. Since the forum update I have had a difficult time locating that particular thread.
 
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quadtrade

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Since 2002/2003
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FWIW, these are the quad tracks on the vinyl.



View attachment 30391View attachment 30392
No. This sq disc was done by a fellow in LA. Super quad enthusiast in the day ran a Evolution mail order and a newsletter. bet the CD came much later from a 2 channel source. But worth a check. The record is amazing. Might be best lp i ever heard. Evolution evolved into laserdiscs and home theater. Brad and I did a demo and greeting at one of his super sales in Thousand Oaks. He sold off tons of laserdiscs cheap a couple times a year. We were there to just promote DTS. Image just released a bunch of DTS laserdiscs and Brad was promoting them in the catalog we handed out at the start. DVD did not appear for over a year after that moment.


1-1-dts laserdiscsd.jpg
 

fizzywiggs41

2K Club - QQ Super Nova
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Messages
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No. This sq disc was done by a fellow in LA. Super quad enthusiast in the day ran a Evolution mail order and a newsletter. bet the CD came much later from a 2 channel source. But worth a check. The record is amazing. Might be best lp i ever heard. Evolution evolved into laserdiscs and home theater. Brad and I did a demo and greeting at one of his super sales in Thousand Oaks. He sold off tons of laserdiscs cheap a couple times a year. We were there to just promote DTS. Image just released a bunch of DTS laserdiscs and Brad was promoting them in the catalog we handed out at the start. DVD did not appear for over a year after that moment.


View attachment 33353
Quadtrade,
Can you clarify what the "no " means in relation to the SQ LP Pics ?
I was always curious as to the year of the quad SQ broadcast, or is this recording something other than an FM broadcast .
 

quadtrade

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Joined
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Messages
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Location
Ugene
I called Jay and asked about the disc again since i could not remember. It came from a recording done for a radio show in Chicago. These were not quad bradcasts, stereo only. The engineer (who i know and dealt with) made a couple hundred of quad recordings from the board tapes he had access to (i have the list), from recording these radio shows. This one sounded spectacular and they got the approval from the band. They only pressed around 50 copies and got a cease and desist order from the real record company. Hope that straightens out the mess. Now it is maybe time to see if i can pry a couple more of these recordings out. The underground Cars is his also. I invited Jay to participate here and maybe he will show up. Since he had a newsletter back in the day, he would be a treasure of knowledge. I know to a lot of these guys, it is way in the past and not interesting anymore. But ya never know, he just might.
 
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MacDaddy

Active Member
Since 2002/2003
Joined
Jan 16, 2003
Messages
65
Location
Kamloops BC, Canada
I called Jay and asked about the disc again since i could not remember. It came from a recording done for a radio show in Chicago. These were not quad bradcasts, stereo only. The engineer (who i know and dealt with) made a couple hundred of quad recordings from the board tapes he had access to (i have the list), from recording these radio shows. This one sounded spectacular and they got the approval from the band. They only pressed around 50 copies and got a cease and desist order from the real record company. Hope that straightens out the mess. Now it is maybe time to see if i can pry a couple more of these recordings out. The underground Cars is his also. I invited Jay to participate here and maybe he will show up. Since he had a newsletter back in the day, he would be a treasure of knowledge. I know to a lot of these guys, it is way in the past and not interesting anymore. But ya never know, he just might.
Here is a link I posted a couple of years back I found about the Brand X recording. http://www.genesis-movement.org/php/showcomments.php?uid=6301
 

fizzywiggs41

2K Club - QQ Super Nova
Joined
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Messages
4,055
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wpg, mb
I called Jay and asked about the disc again since i could not remember. It came from a recording done for a radio show in Chicago. These were not quad bradcasts, stereo only. The engineer (who i know and dealt with) made a couple hundred of quad recordings from the board tapes he had access to (i have the list), from recording these radio shows. This one sounded spectacular and they got the approval from the band. They only pressed around 50 copies and got a cease and desist order from the real record company. Hope that straightens out the mess. Now it is maybe time to see if i can pry a couple more of these recordings out. The underground Cars is his also. I invited Jay to participate here and maybe he will show up. Since he had a newsletter back in the day, he would be a treasure of knowledge. I know to a lot of these guys, it is way in the past and not interesting anymore. But ya never know, he just might.
Thanks for clarifying , that's great info .
Hopefully he takes up your offer Quadtrade.
I assume the Jay your referring to is Jay Frank from Evolution and 4-Quad Newsletter fame.
 

fizzywiggs41

2K Club - QQ Super Nova
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Messages
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wpg, mb
Thought I'd wake up this thread...


Anyone else pick up the cd of David Bowie -Serious Moonlight , released this year , no wait 2019 !

. And yes I'm assuming the SQ is still intact.
 

The Auroran

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61
Location
The Earth
Thought I'd wake up this thread...


Anyone else pick up the cd of David Bowie -Serious Moonlight , released this year , no wait 2019 !

. And yes I'm assuming the SQ is still intact.
Unfortunately it isn't SQ, but there is a degree of hall ambiance that might be of use in a basic form of processing.
 

stevendive

Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2017
Messages
27
Unfortunately it isn't SQ, but there is a degree of hall ambiance that might be of use in a basic form of processing.
If you’re feeling adventurous then another option for processing stereo that is rarely mentioned these days is the superstereo mode of an ambisonic decoder. From around 1995 and current, Meridian has been making these boxes for home use and a used 565 or 568.2 can be found for little money.

The phasey ambience may lend itself to this sort of treatment and the image width can be adjusted to taste, from virtual mono front to almost wrap around. Generally a setting of 0.5 gives an approx. stereo spread for in phase signals, with the intended, by design, benefit of a better than stereo energy with frequency distribution over the frontal sound stage. The ‘out of phase’ part moves towards the side/rear.
 

fizzywiggs41

2K Club - QQ Super Nova
Joined
Feb 15, 2015
Messages
4,055
Location
wpg, mb
Unfortunately it isn't SQ, but there is a degree of hall ambiance that might be of use in a basic form of processing.

Really ? It s/b still encoded I would think. It was never a discrete type of mix in SQ for the surrounds for a TATE encode.
But then it is a live recording afterall.

Note that it was not remixed, just remastered.
 

Jerfo

Active Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2017
Messages
58
So does that mean that the Brand X timeline cd is encoded?

https://www.amazon.com/Timeline-Brand-X/dp/B00003Q5AI?tag=mfconvert-20
Sorry for the extreme necropost here. Since we're in the middle of our "social distancing" measures here, I have a little more free time to get to some things that I've been meaning to get to for a while.

I'm currently doing an A-B test between the Timeline CD running through my Surround Master (in SQ mode) and the floating-round-the-deepest-recesses-of-the-interwebs DTS-encoded ISO image of the Brand X Squared boot. It's not a scientific test by any means, but the panning sounds identical to me. I'd be willing to wager that the CD has the SQ encoding after all.
 
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