Matrix Surround Hardware Question

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dr8track

1K Club - QQ Shooting Star
Since 2002/2003
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This may seem like a dopey question for those who know the answer, but I've got a question regarding amplification for matrix playback. I was always under the assumption that one of the requirements of any quadraphonic playback (Q8, Quad Reel, CD-4, SQ, QS, etc) was four channels of amplification. In the case of matrix quad, I'm now wondering if that is true.
The question came up for me when I was doing research on my recent acquisition, a Seeburg SQS 160 Quadraphonic Jukebox. Now, I think everyone knows that the "decoder" in the Seeburg quad jukes was a total scam. That was verified for me when I discovered that the quad jukebox came with a 2 channel stereo amplifier. In an old post, Tad Bartel, who also has one of these quad jukes, suggested purchasing a more modern matrix decoder for use w/ the jukebox, a Chase HTS-1. I found one of these dirt cheap as Tad suggested I might. When I received the Chase, which was actually an early design for surround playback for home theaters, most of the setup options only require a two channel stereo amp. They do have one possible set up that uses a separate stereo amp to power the rear channels, but that is simply to give you separate volume control of the rears.
If a matrix decoder can split a stereo signal into four or more channels, and if that decoder allows you to feed that output signal to four separate speakers, is there actually any reason that you need more than two channels of amplification? Other than lack of control w/ the playback volume between front and rears, can't a stereo amp actually power matrix quad?
 
I've got an old Sears Pro series receiver that has a "4D" setting that allows you to run 4 speakers. I don't know what the decoding method is, but it can reproduce SQ records quite well. It is only a 2 Channel amp.
 
Q-Eight said:
I've got an old Sears Pro series receiver that has a "4D" setting that allows you to run 4 speakers. I don't know what the decoding method is, but it can reproduce SQ records quite well. It is only a 2 Channel amp.
For many years ca. 1973-1992 I listened to my matrix recordings using a homemade Haffler decoder I was quite satisfied with the results. It was not until the advent of affordable home theater receivers that I was able to decode the matrix sources with an "authentic" decoder. A couple of years ago one of my neighbors put out (on the garbage) a Sanyo receiver with SQ/QS decoder in the front end. The amplifiers didn't work (not that it mattered) but the decoders and tuner did. I am using it for my LP's and like it I know that the decoder is not the best but it does give me a better perspective on what the producers of these records intended.
intended.
The Haffler passive matrix is the method that excited the audio world into quad and it works! See the other posts elsewhere in this forum about the jukebox .
 
I'm not a tech. But, using logic (hey!!!! that's kinda' punny!!!!), if the decoders were downstream from the amps wouldn't 2 be enough?

However, if the decoders were upstream, if the 2 channels of encoded audio were separated into 4 channels first it seems that 4 channels of amplification would be required.

Hmmmmmmm........ is the "better" quad hardware composed of decoding then amplification while the el cheapo units are vice versa?

Inquiring minds wanna' know!!!!
 
Obbop said:
I'm not a tech. But, using logic (hey!!!! that's kinda' punny!!!!), if the decoders were downstream from the amps wouldn't 2 be enough?

However, if the decoders were upstream, if the 2 channels of encoded audio were separated into 4 channels first it seems that 4 channels of amplification would be required.

Hmmmmmmm........ is the "better" quad hardware composed of decoding then amplification while the el cheapo units are vice versa?

Inquiring minds wanna' know!!!!

Err... wouldn't this all depend on whether we're talking about stereo or mono amps?
 
The Hafler circuit is not a true SQ decoder. It was, however, the circuit that got the whole thing started. SQ decoding requires an SQ decoder and a four channel amplifier. Although many true SQ decoders weren't very good, I would think that they were superior to a Hafler circuit and a stereo amp. Of course a GOOD SQ system would consist of a Tate decoder and a four channel amp. There were many stereos that were fitted with Hafler circuits during the seventies and they had the imfamous "quad" button that magically transformed everything you played into stunning quadraphonic sound! I believe they were a formidable contributor to the demise of quad. People bought these things in mass, and were disappointed without ever having heard real quad. Among many other reasons this was one of the primary ones. I don't consider it to be real quad.

The Quadfather
 
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