Maybe *NOT* Double Stereo - The Guess Who : Power in the Music

[Q-Eight]

Giving my new Canadian version a play-through, I noticed that with the channels set up the way they should be, I was getting instruments in Front Left and Back Right. So, I swapped right channels back-to-front and was pleasantly surprised to find that on many songs.... drums were mostly to the front. The guitar solo on "Rosanne" is ONLY in the new front channels. During the part in the song where Burton sings "Could've prevented all this...." with the channels in the new layout, the vocals in front AND rear are DRY..... it's only when you put them together do you get that delayed effect found in that part of the song. Also, with this new setup; Burton's baby grand, electric piano and percussion are mostly to the back. On "Rich World-Poor World" it's guitars in front, baby grand in rear, vocals all around. There's even a part where the vocals jump to the back and there's a whisper vocal in the front!

I'd always written this one off as double stereo, but maybe it just turns out to be a subtle mix?

I might give "Flavours" a listen as well. Might be the same thing. Maybe Dutton-Vocalion could pop these out as a two-fer with the channels in the proper locations!!

P.S. - I think this is a master tape foul up because BOTH the Canadian and US versions play out the same. I believe the CD-4 might've also been pressed incorrectly using the same master.

 

[ar surround]

With The Guess Who quads, it seems as if they were purposely created so that they would sound OK no matter how the channels were oriented. For example on the single version of No Time, keeping the channels "as found" has the guitar doing an X pattern in the room. Swapping select channels changes the pattern to get the guitar panning around the room in a circle. Either way, it still sounds good.

However, it appears that swapping channels on this Power In The Music quad makes a big difference. I won't experience it unless DV reissues the quad.

(Aside: Why Allmusic has rated so many of The Guess Who albums so low is beyond me. I bought the Wheatfield Soul, #10 and Road Food DV quads. They give these albums between 2 and 2-1/2 stars. Are they friggin' joking?)

 

[fredblue]

interesting....

the "Flavours" Quad was recently put out in 360RA and well i gotta say if its not fake Quad then its incredibly shite Quad. its got that nasty taste of "Herbie Hancock Secrets" and "Santana Festival" about it, with all the Bass up in the Fronts and the Treble in the Back channels. bleurgh. "Flavours" tastes like.. idk wtf but its not for me!

 

[fizzywiggs41]

I'd buy the twofer , if Dutton Vocalion issued "Power In The Music" and "Flavours" ,
Or for that matter a threefer, including "Artificial Paradise" .

There are worse in surround.....thinking maybe Silverline's, live- from- the- front- row , or for that matter most of the Silverline/Sanctuary releases.


Hey its a good thing K-Tel International didn't get into quad ! And they had an exclusive deal with a small number of artists.
One of whom was......oh ummmmm Elton John!!!! ???

 

[fizzywiggs41]

interesting....

the "Flavours" Quad was recently put out in 360RA and well i gotta say if its not fake Quad then its incredibly shite Quad. its got that nasty taste of "Herbie Hancock Secrets" and "Santana Festival" about it, with all the Bass up in the Fronts and the Treble in the Back channels. bleurgh. "Flavours" tastes like.. idk wtf but its not for me!

I'm not saying Flavours is a great quad mix in any way , actually I find it weak musically.

But what are the chances 360RA are simply upmixing some of the Stereo tracks of various Artist's Albums...into an atmospheric soundfield ? (Not including "Flavours" in this process)

Given that DV have done some quad mixing themselves, what are the chances they could enhance the few inferior mixes ? They could even give 2 mixes on a SACD ,original and improved.

 

[fredblue]

I'm not saying Flavours is a great quad mix in any way , actually I find it weak musically.

But what are the chances 360RA are simply upmixing some of the Stereo tracks of various Artist's Albums...into an atmospheric soundfield ? (Not including "Flavours" in this process)

Given that DV have done some quad mixing themselves, what are the chances they could enhance the few inferior mixes ? They could even give 2 mixes on a SACD ,original and improved.

i've not suspected any upmixing of Quads or old 5.1's reissued in 360RA, so far.

some of the Atmos stuff? no comment!

 

[jefe1]

Given the amount of Guess Who quads DV have released already I would say theres a good chance we will get the remainder including Power to the People and Fredblues favorite Flavours.
And it would be great to have Michael Dutton show his remix prowess again by fixing these quads.
Im sure if Birds of Fire had been released by DV they would have fixed the crossed channels.

When are we going to hear from Mr Dutton and his new releases?

 

[4-earredwonder]

Given the amount of Guess Who quads DV have released already I would say theres a good chance we will get the remainder including Power to the People and Fredblues favorite Flavours.
And it would be great to have Michael Dutton show his remix prowess again by fixing these quads.
Im sure if Birds of Fire had been released by DV they would have fixed the crossed channels.

When are we going to hear from Mr Dutton and his new releases?

Michael Dutton could only do remixes if he was privy to the multitracks. Perhaps he didn't release the aforementioned Guess Who QUADs because of their lackluster remixes except for Adam's fav FLAVOURS!

And hopefully by September, we'll have some bona fide new Pop/Rock/Jazz QUAD SACDs from D~V .......... this interminably long wait has frankly been excruciating!

 

[fizzywiggs41]

Michael Dutton could only do remixes if he was privy to the multitracks. Perhaps he didn't release the aforementioned Guess Who QUADs because of their lackluster remixes except for Adam's fav FLAVOURS!

And hopefully by September, we'll have some bona fide new Pop/Rock/azz QUAD SACDs from D~V .......... this interminably long wait has frankly been excruciating!

I don't mind the wait...too much.

I just ordered 4 from DV ...both Donald Byrds ,Mancini w/Pink Panther , and that Soulsoundtrack album by Cecile Holmes.

 

[Q-Eight]

If it's a question of multitracks, there should be no problem. I've been told be some folks in the know that ALL the Guess Who tapes are alive and well; they've also been digitally archived and (apparently) multiple safety copies exist. I remember reading back in the 90's yet that the Guess Who catalog was going to get a complete overhaul with remixes/remasters and the 5.1 treatment. I can only speculate that the cost of rounding up everything and digitizing it probably broke the budget.

 

[Q-Eight]

Been playing with "Flavours" tonight.... There's something here with the cleaner 360RA stuff. Super subtle.... I doubt the Q8 could accurately reproduce what's going on here.
Thus far, I've managed to up the rear channels by 6db so their waveforms roughly match the front. Using the song "Dirty", I've swapped everything around. Channel 6 is now FL, Channel 5 is now FR. Channel 1 is BL and Channel 2 is BR. This puts the "brighter" sounds in the front. Ride Cymbal is quite prominent now in FR and it's mate is in BR. Snare is right up the middle. Crash cymbal (when hit) is in the left channels. Sort of a "super stereo" drum kit. But also by matching these channels up like I have, the guitars match up in stereo left and stereo right and the high-pitch guitar solo is 90% in the front but you still can hear it in the rears.

It makes logical sense to me and sounds pretty good on my PC.... but it's a far cry from how Brian Christian mixed the last few Guess Who titles. Makes me wonder if an RCA staffer did these last two.

 

[par4ken]

View attachment 82254

Giving my new Canadian version a play-through, I noticed that with the channels set up the way they should be, I was getting instruments in Front Left and Back Right. So, I swapped right channels back-to-front and was pleasantly surprised to find that on many songs.... drums were mostly to the front. The guitar solo on "Rosanne" is ONLY in the new front channels. During the part in the song where Burton sings "Could've prevented all this...." with the channels in the new layout, the vocals in front AND rear are DRY..... it's only when you put them together do you get that delayed effect found in that part of the song. Also, with this new setup; Burton's baby grand, electric piano and percussion are mostly to the back. On "Rich World-Poor World" it's guitars in front, baby grand in rear, vocals all around. There's even a part where the vocals jump to the back and there's a whisper vocal in the front!

I'd always written this one off as double stereo, but maybe it just turns out to be a subtle mix?

I might give "Flavours" a listen as well. Might be the same thing. Maybe Dutton-Vocalion could pop these out as a two-fer with the channels in the proper locations!!

P.S. - I think this is a master tape foul up because BOTH the Canadian and US versions play out the same. I believe the CD-4 might've also been pressed incorrectly using the same master.

I always loved this album despite complaints about the mix.

 

[par4ken]

With The Guess Who quads, it seems as if they were purposely created so that they would sound OK no matter how the channels were oriented. For example on the single version of No Time, keeping the channels "as found" has the guitar doing an X pattern in the room. Swapping select channels changes the pattern to get the guitar panning around the room in a circle. Either way, it still sounds good.

However, it appears that swapping channels on this Power In The Music quad makes a big difference. I won't experience it unless DV reissues the quad.

(Aside: Why Allmusic has rated so many of The Guess Who albums so low is beyond me. I bought the Wheatfield Soul, #10 and Road Food DV quads. They give these albums between 2 and 2-1/2 stars. Are they friggin' joking?)

Those early quads were designed for four corner quad. I'm reminded of the Harmon Kardon advertisement with Humble Pie were the band is seated on couches on every side with speakers in the four corners. You would get great sound no matter which direction you sat. Those mixes were great in the car. Vocals came from all speakers as quad was envisioned as an expansion of stereo. I still love those old mixes and I like bass and drums coming from the rear!

All those Guess Who albums are fantastic whether the stereo or quad version!!!

 

[fredblue]

Given the amount of Guess Who quads DV have released already I would say theres a good chance we will get the remainder including Power to the People and Fredblues favorite Flavours.
And it would be great to have Michael Dutton show his remix prowess again by fixing these quads.
Im sure if Birds of Fire had been released by DV they would have fixed the crossed channels.

When are we going to hear from Mr Dutton and his new releases?

i think they've moved on from the Guess Who tbh but we shall see

 

[fredblue]

Michael Dutton could only do remixes if he was privy to the multitracks. Perhaps he didn't release the aforementioned Guess Who QUADs because of their lackluster remixes except for Adam's fav FLAVOURS!

And hopefully by September, we'll have some bona fide new Pop/Rock/Jazz QUAD SACDs from D~V .......... this interminably long wait has frankly been excruciating!

aside from the diminishing returns of the cost of remixing, there's also the necessary permissions to consider.

i'm guessing Sony would have to allow DV to remix from the multi's in the first place and that may be an issue.

remember the Raiders SACD, those MultiCh remixes were done in-house by Sony's Mark Wilder in NY. i suspect Sony wouldn't let anyone else get their mitts on them!

 

[Lance7489]

Somebody at RCA really dropped the ball with the so-called quad mixes of Flavours & Power in the Music. I'd be shocked if Dutton/Vocalion would ever take these on, simply because the mixes are so poor & total lack of any kind of any kind of 4 channel separation. To me, they sound like mono mixes. Have no idea what RCA was trying to accomplish with these. I would love to hear an explanation from someone in the know. It's really mind boggling because all the other GW quad releases (with the exception of the Q8 "Artificial Paradise") were exceptional.

Has anyone out there ever heard the "backstory" as to what in the world RCA (or maybe the band itself) had in mind with these two quadless quad releases???

 

[Q-Eight]

Somebody at RCA really dropped the ball with the so-called quad mixes of Flavours & Power in the Music. I'd be shocked if Dutton/Vocalion would ever take these on, simply because the mixes are so poor & total lack of any kind of any kind of 4 channel separation. To me, they sound like mono mixes. Have no idea what RCA was trying to accomplish with these. I would love to hear an explanation from someone in the know. It's really mind boggling because all the other GW quad releases (with the exception of the Q8 "Artificial Paradise") were exceptional.

Has anyone out there ever heard the "backstory" as to what in the world RCA (or maybe the band itself) had in mind with these two quadless quad releases???

I'd tried to get in touch with Brian Christian in the before-fore times but to date, have not had a reply. Years ago, I'd been in touch with Jack Richardson before he passed but as it turns out, some of his information may have been incorrect. Brian would probably be the man to talk to but so far, he doesn't seem to want to join in the discussion.