DVD/DTS Poll McCartney, Paul & Wings - BAND ON THE RUN [DTS]

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Rate the DTS-CD of Paul McCartney and Wings - BAND ON THE RUN


  • Total voters
    73

JonUrban

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One of the early DTS releases, from Brad Miller's Mobile Fidelity International. Using the original Q8 masters from Capitol/Apple, this CD hit the market and "Surround Sound" was reborn and moved into the digital age.

Of course, as with all re-entries, there are bound to be "issues", and this disc is no exception. As many of us found out back when the disc first appeared, the first three notes are missing from the intro to the album title track. At the time many blamed their DTS encoders. Such is new technology!

More updated information is now known and all of the details are in Post #2.

:-jon
 
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[PLEASE NOTE: This post was created on Feb 20, 2022 and is not really the second post in this thread. However, I wanted this information to be found for those searching for this disc and looking to understand it's history and how they can tell which disc they might get if the find a sealed copy]

:-jon

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So here's the deal. When this DTS disc appeared, it was sold in a CD sized jewel box along with the other newly released DTS CDs, and these were marketed through the mail and also in displays in LaserDisc and Home Theater shops. It was very cool for us fans to be able to actually hear an old, long forgotten quadraphonic mix coming from something other than a Q8 or old quadraphonic media. To hear old quad coming from a CD was mind boggling at the time. Trust me on that one, as it sounds moronic today.

Anyway, back in the early days there were some issues with DTS Decoders where they would lose sync if the DTS stream stopped, like in between tracks on a disc. When fans got the DTS disc of Band on the Run and they put it in their players, right away they noticed that the 4 familiar lead in notes to the title track were now just one, with the first three missing. Many immediately blamed their decoders.

As it turned out, it wasn't their decoders, it was the disc! For some reason, when the disc was mastered from the quad tape (allegedly by Peter Mew), the first 3 notes were left off! For those of you who like to look at wav files, below is a look at the audio from the first track 'Band on the Run'. I have highlighted the first four notes. On the original DTS CD, notes 1, 2 & 3 are not there! That's why we did not hear them.

wavs.jpg


The original DTS CD starts AFTER the yellow vertical line I placed on the wav form. Like I said, the original DTS disc was sold in a CD sized jewel case and the disc inside had a purple label. Just like the pictures below:

Small JC.jpg


BOTR Small CD.jpg


This disc remained this way well into the 2000's. As the DVD-Audio format emerged, DTS Entertainment decided to repackage their most popular titles in the larger DVD-Audio sized jewel boxes. (Much to everyone's dismay, they did not create DVD-Audio discs for these titles, they just remained as DTS CDs)

So at the time they began this change over, the disc remained as it was, missing the three introductory notes. For reference, here is a look at the first appearance larger sized release that still contained the disc without the first 3 notes. As you can see, the larger case still contained the purple CD.

First issue with big case.jpg


large fist issue.jpg


Then, suddenly, around 2007, QQ Member @dr. simple discovered that his "Band on the Run" DTS CD was NOT missing the first three notes. In fact, if you read ahead in this poll to his post, you can read through this discovery in real time. He thought we were all crazy! :)

As it turned out, somewhere along the way DTS Entertainment actually went ahead and fixed the disc! The first three notes were added back in, and the corrected disc was issued with a new yellow label. It retained the same large sized jewel box with the yellow background, but there was a difference between the two, but no one actually noticed it yet. More on that later. Here's a look at the 'fixed disc'.

Second Large Issue.jpg


Second Large Disc.jpg


So now there were multiple versions of the disc out in the stores (when you could actually find one), but you had no way of knowing if you would get a purple disc or a yellow disc if you bought a sealed disc in a store or on line or on eBay.

Well, I recently had a correspondence with a Beatles collector from California, Mark, who told me there was in fact a way to tell the difference, even if the disc is sealed. He discovered that the shade of the yellow background, which can be seen when the disc case is closed, is actually a different shade of yellow when you compare the two discs side by side. There is also a difference in the type face used on the edge spline between the two.

So this is what he found:

The corrected disc has a slightly darker yellow color, more mustard where the purple disc case has a lemon yellow. The Yellow disc is in the FRONT jewel case in the picture below.

Jewel Cases.jpg


Also, the text on the spline that says "PAUL McCARTNEY & WINGS" is clear and sharp on the original release (with the purple CD) and the second run has the words a bit out of focus (these have the yellow disc in them)

Splines.jpg


So there you go! Thanks to Dr. Simple and Mark! The definitive history of the Band on the Run DTS CD
 
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I didn't realize, either. What happened? I just looked at a copy and it's from DTS Entertainment. Sure enough, though, I see that Mobile Fidelityand "High Definition Surround" are in the fine print. I also didn't realize it was a Quad mix. So it's only 4.0? I wish we could get more specialty market releases of 70s Quad recordings.
 
The History Of Mobile Fidelity is a long one, and there are people in this newsgroup far better able to explain it than myself.From what I can recall Brad Miller originally founded the company MFSL that most of us would be familiar with, but then he later moved on from it...But his next business was called Mobile Fidelity International, which is what is printed on the dts cd here.

Confusing, because the mobile fidelity international is not the mobile fidelity sound labs most people are familiar with. ...and even more confusing because Brad was involved with both business and has had similar titles released (power and the majesty) on both mobile fidelity labels. I myself have imported , wholesaled and retailed both labels.The other distinguishing factor is the address on the back cover. The MFSL was basically always in California, until it's demise and reinvention a few years ago.
 
JonUrban said:
The above wav file picture is from the Q8, which is where the quad mix came from. That is why the song order follows the Q8, and not the original album.

Jon I think you have the titles confused here.The running order of the dts Band on the run is the same as the original USA and Australian Lp release.
The british Lp did not have Helen Wheels included on the lp, but the rest of the tracks were also in the same running order...
What is mixed up is the dts running order of Venus and Mars. which not only doesn't follow the lp but seems to differ from q8's that i have seen.
 
I gave this one a 9. three notes missing or not, it is a great disc.
One day if I ever get round to it, i'll edit those notes back in myself.But i was hoping later pressing issues would have corrected the problem, without having to do any work myself.
 
ChristopherLees said:
Jon I think you have the titles confused here.The running order of the dts Band on the run is the same as the original USA and Australian Lp release.
The british Lp did not have Helen Wheels included on the lp, but the rest of the tracks were also in the same running order...
What is mixed up is the dts running order of Venus and Mars. which not only doesn't follow the lp but seems to differ from q8's that i have seen.

Ooops! You are correct, I will fix that post! THANKS :mad:@:
 
Thanks for the info, ChristopherLees!

That said... I also like the surround mix. I haven't voted yet though since I haven't listened to it all that much and definitely not in a long while. But eventually I will.
 
I had to vote 10 because it was one of the first few Q8's i bought. Just brings back memories of listening to my first quad system. Plus i love the music. The mix is probably a 9. :)
 
ChristopherLees said:
The History Of Mobile Fidelity is a long one, and there are people in this newsgroup far better able to explain it than myself.From what I can recall Brad Miller originally founded the company MFSL that most of us would be familiar with, but then he later moved on from it...But his next business was called Mobile Fidelity International, which is what is printed on the dts cd here.

Confusing, because the mobile fidelity international is not the mobile fidelity sound labs most people are familiar with. ...and even more confusing because Brad was involved with both business and has had similar titles released (power and the majesty) on both mobile fidelity labels. I myself have imported , wholesaled and retailed both labels.The other distinguishing factor is the address on the back cover. The MFSL was basically always in California, until it's demise and reinvention a few years ago.

Mobile Fidelity International had to be dropped after suits threatened. Brad loved the name.
 
A '9' here also....it's a really fun mix and like many of you, a Q8 that was enjoyed very much back in the day. The clipped notes are unfortunate(and amazingly, never fixed!), but once one is beyond that, it's a real treat. Highlights for me are "Jet," "Let Me Roll It" and most of all "Nineteen Hundred And Eighty-Five," with that slow build("Live And Let Die" must have been the inspiration for the arrangement)and remarkable climax that so few albums offer, this is the aural equivalent of great sex....:banana::sun

ED :)
 
I wonder if the missing notes were never fixed because they only had the master tape for a short time, and to get it back would have been expensive, and a nightmare!?
 
JonUrban said:
I wonder if the missing notes were never fixed because they only had the master tape for a short time, and to get it back would have been expensive, and a nightmare!?
No Jon, these were all done from Digital transfers from the company itself. Hi 8 tape and done on DA-88s. Standard at the time, though not the best converters in these machines. As to why, i can't tell ya as i never heard the master on this one. Maybe i can try and find out though if it was supplied that way. I'm sure it was, why no one realized it, i can't say. DTS was doing encoding at the time and no one there caught it also.
 
But how do you clip an intro like that?!? In the process of remixing, it can be understandable that someone not familiar with the stereo mixdown might mix something way up or down relative to that tape....but to clip the first notes--that obviously--requires either ignorance, stupidity, or somebody's honest blunder, the sort of thing we don't wish to associate with professionals.....

ED
 
Ed Bishop said:
But how do you clip an intro like that?!? In the process of remixing, it can be understandable that someone not familiar with the stereo mixdown might mix something way up or down relative to that tape....but to clip the first notes--that obviously--requires either ignorance, stupidity, or somebody's honest blunder, the sort of thing we don't wish to associate with professionals.....

ED
Ed,
Brad was more meticulous and professional than about anyone i know, about everything. Drove lots of people crazy. He must not have had knowledge of the 2 channel mix. He was more of a mystic moods guy. But he loved the Beck Bogart and Appice which is why that got issued. At that time i was on the road with the Mill and only got involved in studio stuff later. As far as what we received, sometimes these guys would give us side one twice, or the wrong lp. Amazing. Also At that moment we had a machine and so little product as we were about the only company issuing DTS, that things went very fast. Especially with the Polygram and McCartney product, which was basically the first product. My guess is basically Brad and the fellow encoding were the only 2 to hear it. But ya know, if not for him, we would have had a lot less to listen to, and the jumpstart to this whole revival. We used our $ and absolutely drove that market to start opening this multichannel phase. To tell ya the truth, i am more concerned about it's continuence, than a couple seconds of a title at this point.
 
Tad,

I hear ya...and every word you say is true. Which is why I threw in the phrase 'somebody's honest blunder'....which is what I think it was, ultimately. Happens....

ED
 
Ed Bishop said:
Tad,

I hear ya...and every word you say is true. Which is why I threw in the phrase 'somebody's honest blunder'....which is what I think it was, ultimately. Happens....

ED
Ya know one other thing i am most proud of!! We forced open architechure. Before we started this, no one had a 5.1 in. My job was a bitch. It was tape leads in only. I had the denon guys say, ya know it is time we do it this way after CES one year. And they sang the song, the revolution of allowing any system in. Mains all around.
 
I find this mix to far superior to Venus and Mars. Despite the clipped intro, the rest of the disc sounds fine in good ol' quad. I gave it an 8.
 
A very tasteful mix with not too much going on in the behinds. But when something does happen, then it's really a nice surprise. A highlight must be the french talking radio in Picassos last words. I'm surprised to find out that it's supposedly the original 70es quad mix, because it's mixed like a remix. All the fronts are quite generic stereo (as opposed to Venus and Mars)
 
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