Media Players 101: Why use a Media Player? (Pros and Cons)

[himey]

Again thank you.

I have learned that my AVR doesn’t support multichannel in FLAC streaming (very strange), but I suppose I can use my AVR as a transport, eg doing the PCM-output pre AVR?

Just use your AVR as an AVR! HDMI input. The Media software will do the organization AND the playback.

A server is just software to organize the media files. With media software like Kodi, jRiver, Musicbee, ect., you don't NEED a server. The organizing of the files are done within that software, and a server, although can be used in conjunction, is redundant.

 

[Ninecats]

That sounds like music! I get the principles now. I have never been interested in this before, but realize that this is the way to go. Many thanks!

 

[HomerJAU]

Sounds promising, I always thought FLAC equalled CD (16/44)? I have a lot to learn here

I have FLACs at 24/192 from BDAs and 24/176.4 from SACDs, although most my SACDs have been converted at 24/88.2 after I decided I couldn’t hear the difference but the FLACs were about twice the size at 176.4kHz.

 

[HomerJAU]

Again thank you.

I have learned that my AVR doesn’t support multichannel in FLAC streaming (very strange), but I suppose I can use my AVR as a transport, eg doing the PCM-output pre AVR?

What AVR do you have? Maybe a media player to HDMI in may solve the problem?

 

[Ninecats]

What AVR do you have? Maybe a media player to HDMI in may solve the problem?

I have a Yamaha RXV 1073 currently (same specs as RXA 1020) and it’s got lots of HDMI connections. So a mediaplayer to this could do it I guess, as himey said, let the avr be an avr

I would prefer a mediaplayer/server (if not computer is a must that is) with interface shown on the mobile/tv.

 

[ssully]

So going FLAC with audio content from SACD, dvd audio and bluray audio is actually going slight lossy? I can live with that I suppose.

That makes it a lot easier to set up a sevrver and play back multichannel in an easy way. But playing lossless hi res in multichannel seems real tricky.

It's not. I do it frequently with nothing more than a pocket-size external drive with 2TB of storage, USB-connected to an old networked desktop computer that contains an HDMI card, runs Windows 10 and foobar2k software and select f2k plugins, and has an HDMI cable running to a modern AVR capable of playing any PCM rate up to 192/24 (as well as decoding nearly all flavors of DTS and Dolby). All my DSD rips are already converted to PCM and all files are shrunk with FLAC. Lately I've added a phone/tablet app that can remotely control foobar via Wifi. The rate-limiting step in all this is literally just *the time it takes the computer to boot up*. It's slow as hell doing that.

So, once the files are ripped to that external drive, playing them is pretty simple. Foobar decodes FLAC to PCM (including multichannel PCM), and out it goes to the AVR. It can also decode DTS or DD to PCM, but I choose to output those as raw data, and let the AVR decode them.

Ripping the files from disc can be a chore. DVDA and DVD-V are simple, BluRay (can be) fussier, SACD fussier still.

As for lossy vs lossless, DVDA and Bluray rip /decode losslessly to PCM, and are losslessly compressed via FLAC.

As for DSD, fortunately it was *designed* with simple downconversion to PCM in mind (that's why its sample rates are multiples of 44.1, as back then CD was king) . DSD was intended as an archiving format for the labels to use; in the original scheme, consumer product would always be a simple PCM downconversion from DSD. Of course it didn't turn out that way. Labels decided to sell DSD itself as a new, and most importantly, very strongly copy-protected, 'high rez' consumer format , via SACD media. So now we have to deal with actual DSD files. You can now rip those using a tiny handful of hardware players + the right software, and play the resulting huge DSD files 'directly' if you have a DSD decoder in your playback chain (either in your software or your AVR). Or you can convert them to PCM. Which is sensible because any decent DSD-->PCM conversion is perceptually lossless, file sizes are much smaller, and pretty much any modern AVR can play multiple flavors of PCM. Perceptually lossless, as I said, but if you are particularly anal you can always make the downconversion be to 192kHz PCM instead of 96, 88.2 or 44.1. Any of which can then be compressed in size losslessly, via FLAC.

 

[Ninecats]

Thanks for input ssully. I have managed to snag a used Pioneer bdp 170, ripping SACDs to ISO is now easy! If I can manage that, I sure have to fix playback and storage too. Right now I am trying to learn the principles.

 

[dr. simple]

I often play random tracks and find myself going from a high resolution, multichannel recording to a CD quality, stereo recording and back in a listening session. I have found that when sending the bitstream to my Onkyo receiver, the receiver struggles when shifting between the different sources. I set my computer to do all the conversion to PCM and everything works great. Of course your experience may be different, but I put this here just so you’re aware of what might happen.

 

[Ninecats]

So I decided to get a media player, an Nvidia Shield. Not the typical audiophile player perhaps. It doesn’t output more than 48khz multichannel (with/without passthrough) and even convert stereo flac 44.1 to 48 khz (?). But again, this is more of a movie/gaming player.

But I quite like the interface and the speed. Starting to learn kodi, I can play my surround files usually without any trouble but somehow it loses the output from 5.1 to 2.0 for no obvious reason at times, happens both with passthrough enabled and disabled.

 

[HomerJAU]

There’s a Kodi Audio Setting in System menu (I think) that has audio option choices: Optimised, Best Match & Fixed. Set this to Best Match (not Optimised). That may fix the issue.

 

[Ninecats]

Thanks HomerJAU, will try that

 

[HomerJAU]

An update on my recent experience looking to find a Media Player that can do 4K UHD with HDR:

Apple TV 4K: With MrMC app (Kodi fork). Excellent for Video but crappy user interface for music and limited to 48kHz. I use this for movies only. Plenty of apps of course, great for 4K with Atmos/DTS-HDMA passthrough. Not recommended for QQers wanting a hires audio player though. The MrMC Kodi app is limited due to Apple not allowing Kodi side apps/code to run. ArtistSlideshow and many good music skins not available which is a huge downside.

It looks like the new Intel NUC 8 series is going to be good for hires audio. Just waiting on a few more user reports as it’s only just been released. Looks promising as a fully functional hires MCH media player, although HDR for movies not yet confirmed with Linux.

 

[mandrix]

My HTPC (what I call it) I've had for years...Asrock mini board with Z68 i3. I chose it because the board has a built-in CIR circuit that you wire to one of the USB ports, then use the USB dongle supplied with the remote. Since I don't use Windows media functions anymore, I just use my Logitech remote to turn on the pc. I can bitstream from the video card (old PowerColor 5450) via HDMI to my receiver just fine.
I actually don't use it as a media player as much these days, preferring the feel of a disc; however I keep .MKV files of many of my stereo upmixes on the machine for convenience.
I used to use ArcSoft TMT, but can't get it to work anymore. Still using Foobar and now using PowerDVD for BD ISO's. Will check out Kodi.
Haven't tried any 4K yet and will stay tuned for tips and suggestions (I have an LG 55" 4K, and my receiver is 4K capable-alas my OPPO isn't).
I HATE ripping music, other than folders needed for backup....not enough time I guess either.

 

[Ninecats]

There’s a Kodi Audio Setting in System menu (I think) that has audio option choices: Optimised, Best Match & Fixed. Set this to Best Match (not Optimised). That may fix the issue.

After some trying and testing I can now toggle and change songs no matter resolution or surround format without problem, so that was probably the case - many thanks!

 

[marpow]

As you can see there are a few of us that are in the beginning of the new wave of listening to music on this thread that The King HomerJAU started. It seems ever since I was 13 years old I have been intrigued by the newest way of listening to music, whether it be the equipment or the way the music is delivered, this would be the hobbyist in me, and as you know if you follow me it has never been easy for me. It's like going to a Yoga class, how come everybody is so good at this, but I feel better when I am done.
I am adding a link here that has convinced me I am on the right path again and the new wave of listening to music, what the industry wants us to bite, is listening via the digital format. Unfortunately after reading the article I realized we are on the ground floor again, and as the industry locks into this new way of buying and listening to music there will be a ton of equipment and ideas coming our way, hang on for the new ride. Life was simple with no gadgets and MONO, remember that?
Good Article.

 

[mandrix]

As you can see there are a few of us that are in the beginning of the new wave of listening to music on this thread that The King HomerJAU started. It seems ever since I was 13 years old I have been intrigued by the newest way of listening to music, whether it be the equipment or the way the music is delivered, this would be the hobbyist in me, and as you know if you follow me it has never been easy for me. It's like going to a Yoga class, how come everybody is so good at this, but I feel better when I am done.
I am adding a link here that has convinced me I am on the right path again and the new wave of listening to music, what the industry wants us to bite, is listening via the digital format. Unfortunately after reading the article I realized we are on the ground floor again, and as the industry locks into this new way of buying and listening to music there will be a ton of equipment and ideas coming our way, hang on for the new ride. Life was simple with no gadgets and MONO, remember that?
Good Article.

Sounds more like this guy is a shill for yet another company that wants to make money from people who either consider themselves / or want to be / audiophiles.
Having said that, some of it is agreeable enough on a "I suppose that makes sense" level, but the ideal of a HDD introducing appreciable/hearing-detectable noise is beyond my experience.
As always, this my OPINION.

 

[himey]

Sounds more like this guy is a shill for yet another company that wants to make money from people who either consider themselves / or want to be / audiophiles.
Having said that, some of it is agreeable enough on a "I suppose that makes sense" level, but the ideal of a HDD introducing appreciable/hearing-detectable noise is beyond my experience.
As always, this my OPINION.

I agree. My media PC has no moving parts and sounds amazing. It is all about the quality of the mix, not imaginary ultrasonic sounds that even a meter barely reads. That article is outdated in my opinion. Processors no longer need cooling they are so efficient and hard drives no longer spin...

 

[marpow]

I agree. My media PC has no moving parts and sounds amazing. It is all about the quality of the mix, not imaginary ultrasonic sounds that even a meter barely reads. That article is outdated in my opinion. Processors no longer need cooling they are so efficient and hard drives no longer spin...

Well I trust your opinion on the article, but what I got from it more than anything is that downloadable music, machines that do that, whether it be fancy or just your everyday laptop is on the rise and I see it as the biggest wave since the CD in the late 80's. If a company can do this simple, I guess they already have with ITunes, but with a surround and Hi Res market I think it will explode and as others have said downloadable music for sale can be endless, no press runs.

 

[LuvMyQuad]

I would have liked more explanation, or better yet, some solid proof, of the difference between playback coming directly from an HDD vs an intermediate detour to a SSD. The statement that the use of the intermediate SSD just solves all problems just doesn't cut it for me. Where is the analysis that shows XX% of the bytes were changed?

There is other stuff too.... especially the idea that PCs aren't suitable for music playback because they were made to process data.... once digitized, aren't those sound files just that.... data?

 

[antoine555]

I'm playing my medias from the mac I'm writing from.
All of my music is stored on HDD. The only problem of HDD is when you start a biggy, let's say Relayer, you have to read a 1.12 GB file from the disk.

I have a lot of RAM (32GB...), and I'm using Audirvana. Audirvana loads the track to memory to prevent any latency in hard disk access.