Mobile Fidelity - the digital step in MFSL vinyl debacle

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windhoek

windhoek

The Phoolosopher
Joined
Nov 9, 2012
Messages
622
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Somewhere in your mind as a memory...
Mobile Fidelity has finally come clean about the use of a digital step in their vinyl production. Apparently, it had been mooted by a number of well known journalists and social media peeps for a while, but things finally came to a head this week with MF going on record to state that they have indeed been transferring master tapes to DSD and DXD for some years now, and then cutting vinyl from the subsequent lacquers. The video below by The "In" Groove Mike seemed to be the final straw that forced MF to break silence:



Here's the video where Mike travels to MF for an interview about it and the truth is finally laid bare.



Of course, it goes without saying that digital step or no digital step, if it sounds good it is good. But the key issue here is whether MF has been deliberately misleading. Having watched a few other videos about it, I think they have as the omissions about using DSD/DXD are far too precise for it to be a simple oversight.
 
windhoek said:
Mobile Fidelity has finally come clean about the use of a digital step in their vinyl production. Apparently, it had been mooted by a number of well known journalists and social media peeps for a while, but things finally came to a head this week with MF going on record to state that they have indeed been transferring master tapes to DSD and DXD for some years now, and then cutting vinyl from the subsequent lacquers. The video below by The "In" Groove Mike seemed to be the final straw that forced MF to break silence:



Here's the video where Mike travels to MF for an interview about it and the truth is finally laid bare.



Of course, it goes without saying that digital step or no digital step, if it sounds good it is good. But the key issue here is whether MF has been deliberately misleading. Having watched a few other videos about it, I think they have as the omissions about using DSD/DXD are far too precise for it to be a simple oversight.
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ABSOLUTELY Fascinating, Derek but as the crew at MoFi honestly state: It's the end result that counts and although I'm no longer spinning vinyl, I respect their process 110%!
 
Mr. Afternoon said:
Just curious, I've never touched Vinyl in my life, but is there a perceivable sound quality difference between a pure-analog Vinyl Record and a 24/96 Digital File with the same mastering?
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Vinyl sounds different from digital media. There's the snap, crackle and pop of course, but it has a different presentation; not unsurprisingly given that you need to use completely different playback equipment. As for which is better, I'd say mastering is more important than format. A really good sounding record is hard to beat. But so is a really good sounding digital release. Thankfully we have have both :)

EDIT: For example, I've got some Linn Records records and some Linn Records CDs and SACDs and they all sound superb. Some modern vinyl sounds absolutely terrible, but at the same time, as well know all too well, many of the digital releases, including hi-res releases, from the 2000s sound terrible as well due to excessive use of compression.
 
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One thing that most people don't realize is that vinyl can add a little bit of low level reverb. You can prove this to your self by stopping an LP with the needle down and shout at the disc with the volume at a high but playable level. You are likely to hear your shout (or musical instrument notes) through the speakers.

Similarly people doing needle drops sometimes report that they "sound better" when the speakers are on as opposed to just recording in silence. This is random characteristic reverb.

CD audio "outperforms" LPs by a country mile on all the measureable parameters. But a nice well recorded LP is still a pleasure to play and listen to. Especially if it was never released on CD or other format.
 
There is another difference between the phono record and the CD.

When you play a CD, the playing process is usually invisible.

When you play a record, you can see everything.

I especially like to watch an automatic player playing a series of records. I love to watch it move the arm at the end of the record, feel the size of the next record, drop the record, and put the stylus on in the right place.
 
Mr. Afternoon said:
Just curious, I've never touched Vinyl in my life, but is there a perceivable sound quality difference between a pure-analog Vinyl Record and a 24/96 Digital File with the same mastering?
Click to expand...

Yes. The vinyl will necessarily, because of the physical constraints of the format, have a reduced dynamic range (assuming the content is wide dynamic range - not all of it is, so this doesn't always matter), a much much higher noise floor, and some unavoidably audible amount of distortion.

Digital steps aren't audible, unless you choose to make them audible, and don't affect whether a master is a good master, or not. They also capture audio info far in excess of what a vinyl record can reproduce or be safely mastered with. The mastering is what matters. The formats, beyond a certain point, simply do not.


Some people have fetishized cutting vinyl directly from analog tape because they don't realize this, and mistakenly believe they can reliably "hear" digital steps taken in the process of cutting the vinyl, and so pay extra for "pure analog" cuts.

These same people are now upset, because they apparently couldn't hear the difference with MoFi until someone told them that MoFi fact probably (for good reason) took high-res flat digital copies of master tapes out of studio vaults instead of The Actual Tape.

Me, I just buy good-sounding masterings. MoFi's tend to be above average.
 
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In Groove Mike has posted a follow-up video about his time at MF and the interview that took place. I think he's right to highlight that the guys he interviewed are simply the engineers who master and cut the records - they're not the PR guys or executives, and obviously they're also not the PR guys or executives at the parent company, Music Direct - and so it was not absolutely appropriate to bash the guys on camera for making records the way some people prefer or expect; being honest with the consumer is essential but beyond that, MF can make records however they want and it's then up to us to buy them, or not as the case may be


 
I think that most of us already knew that modern vinyl releases were sourced from digital sources. I have a small number of 180 gram "audiophile" records but I don't think that they sound as good as the original pre-digital pressings. I'm unlikely to waste any more money on them.

Even the heavy 180 gram vinyl is little more than a gimmick. Those light weight Dynaflex records of the seventies have always sounded fantastic, and are cheaper to ship!
 
MidiMagic said:
There is another difference between the phono record and the CD.

When you play a CD, the playing process is usually invisible.

When you play a record, you can see everything.

I especially like to watch an automatic player playing a series of records. I love to watch it move the arm at the end of the record, feel the size of the next record, drop the record, and put the stylus on in the right place.
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Sounds like you're using a Collaro/Magnavox changer!
 
gene_stl said:
One thing that most people don't realize is that vinyl can add a little bit of low level reverb. You can prove this to your self by stopping an LP with the needle down and shout at the disc with the volume at a high but playable level. You are likely to hear your shout (or musical instrument notes) through the speakers.

Similarly people doing needle drops sometimes report that they "sound better" when the speakers are on as opposed to just recording in silence. This is random characteristic reverb.

CD audio "outperforms" LPs by a country mile on all the measureable parameters. But a nice well recorded LP is still a pleasure to play and listen to. Especially if it was never released on CD or other format.
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These days Gene, it seems that I'm occasionally shouting at all my equipment. Digital rips that I have heard made from 180 gram vinyl definitely sound smoother than than the "full" digital versions (CD or SACD) that I have. This makes me beg to ask, if people prefer the sound of vinyl, why can't they just make the CD, SACD or 96/24 LPCM simply sound like the vinyl? This should be true especially for the SACD and the 96/24 LPCM formats.
 
This isn’t the first time that MoFi (IMO) was not completely honest. The John Lennon UDCD gold discs from 2003 / 2004 are emblazoned with ORIGINAL MASTER RECORDING however that is not entirely true as the 1999 Yoko Ono-supervised remixes were used, not the original mixes.
 
jaybird100 said:
Sounds like you're using a Collaro/Magnavox changer!
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Yes, I am - but heavily modified to care for the records. Notice the cue control. the Shure cartridge., and the mixed speeds in the stack.

Here it is:

collo2e.jpg:


There are other changers that are more fun to watch:

Dual 1003, 1004, 1005, and 1006.
Sherwood SEL 100
Thorens TD-224
Fisher-Lincoln 70
 
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LennonCobain said:
This isn’t the first time that MoFi (IMO) was not completely honest. The John Lennon UDCD gold discs from 2003 / 2004 are emblazoned with ORIGINAL MASTER RECORDING however that is not entirely true as the 1999 Yoko Ono-supervised remixes were used, not the original mixes.
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Same goes for Megadeth's Countdown To Extinction, which used the Dave Mustaine remixes, although they did mention that in the ad copy.
 
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