Mobile Fidelity - the digital step in MFSL vinyl debacle

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uselessoldman said:
The point is all those who claimed to "love vinyl" and Mofi was the source reference to the best of the best vinyl money could buy now have serious egg on their face. Sure it was, not. I love my first pressings thanks, why do I need another copy of the same album unless the one I have is warn out? The result is that it has made fools of a lot of people on YouTube who being deluded and short of a few brain cells bought into the myths without appreciating the true difference between analogue vinyl and digital remasters. Or those on YouTube who promote Mofi to sell their records cos they own record shops have swindled their customers out of their hard earned cash. If anyone ever thought Mofi was 100% analogue bought their records for that specific reason, they got what they deserved, swindled !!!
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That's not right at all. The point is that Mobile Fidelity were deliberately not straight with its customers to the extent that its customers were essentially misled. It doesn't matter how 'enthusiastic' customers were about analogue vinyl, the act of deception by omission is all on Mobile Fidelity.
 
I'm not sure what can be achieved by legal action, probably nothing good, but legal action has apparently begun (copy and paste from the web):

LAWSUIT #2 being filed in the Illinois Northern District Court

Vinyl record seller Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab was hit with a consumer class action Thursday in Illinois Northern District Court. The case, brought by Wolf Haldenstein Adler Freeman & Herz and Bursor & Fisher, contends that Mobile albums on vinyl which are marketed as ‘purely analog,’ or made from original master recordings, have actually been produced from digital files since 2011. Counsel have not yet appeared for the defendant.”

Case Number: 1:22-cv-04405
Court: Illinois Northern
Nature of Suit: 190(Contract: Other)
Cause: 28:1332 Diversity-Breach of Contract
Multi Party Litigation: Class Action
Judge: Honorable Manish S. Shah

Defendant: Mobile Fidelity Sound Labs, Inc.

Plaintiff: Adam Stiles
Represented By:
Carl V. Malmstrom
Wolf Haldenstein Adler Freeman & Herz LLC
 
I’ve read and heard via YouTube videos on the subject that MoFi has been cutting from digital files since 2009. Maybe, even since the early 2000’s.

I’ve purchased their Gold CD’s and SACD’s over the years but never their vinyl, up until, about a couple of weeks before the news broke that the majority of their vinyl in the past decade was cut from digital files. I spent $60.00 on one of their releases for the purpose of comparing it to one of the same album I purchased on SACD. I’m only slightly disappointed at the fact they weren’t being transparent on their vinyl offerings and I’ll probably stick to their SACD’s going forward.
 
windhoek said:
I'm not sure what can be achieved by legal action, probably nothing good, but legal action has apparently begun (copy and paste from the web):

LAWSUIT #2 being filed in the Illinois Northern District Court

Vinyl record seller Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab was hit with a consumer class action Thursday in Illinois Northern District Court. The case, brought by Wolf Haldenstein Adler Freeman & Herz and Bursor & Fisher, contends that Mobile albums on vinyl which are marketed as ‘purely analog,’ or made from original master recordings, have actually been produced from digital files since 2011. Counsel have not yet appeared for the defendant.”

Case Number: 1:22-cv-04405
Court: Illinois Northern
Nature of Suit: 190(Contract: Other)
Cause: 28:1332 Diversity-Breach of Contract
Multi Party Litigation: Class Action
Judge: Honorable Manish S. Shah

Defendant: Mobile Fidelity Sound Labs, Inc.

Plaintiff: Adam Stiles
Represented By:
Carl V. Malmstrom
Wolf Haldenstein Adler Freeman & Herz LLC
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This is the same firm that sued Warner Chappell over its claims of copyright in Happy Birthday and won a settlement and declaration it was public domain. Guessing there will be a settlement, and this will seriously injure MFSL.
For context, firms like WAFH get paid a percentage out of a settlement and they're quite good at figuring out just how much to get. Folks who purchased MFSL discs will be entitled to settlement proceeds.
This is why you don't get transparency.
 
ubertrout said:
This is the same firm that sued Warner Chappell over its claims of copyright in Happy Birthday and won a settlement and declaration it was public domain. Guessing there will be a settlement, and this will seriously injure MFSL.
For context, firms like WAFH get paid a percentage out of a settlement and they're quite good at figuring out just how much to get. Folks who purchased MFSL discs will be entitled to settlement proceeds.
This is why you don't get transparency.
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Legal proceedings will be great for the lawyers and perhaps plaintiff customers as well but it might just bring about the end of Mobile Fidelity. One can only hope transparency increases across the board as a result of all this, even if only to prevent future legal action and nothing else.
 
windhoek said:
Legal proceedings will be great for the lawyers and perhaps plaintiff customers as well but it might just bring about the end of Mobile Fidelity. One can only hope transparency increases across the board as a result of all this, even if only to prevent future legal action and nothing else.
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Sadly law suits seem to be part of the "American way". All that will be gained is the bankruptcy of Mo-fi at worst, Mo-fi discontinuing vinyl at best. I wonder how proceeds of a suit would be paid out. Would you need proof of purchase? What would even be a fair settlement? Its not that the product is realy defective, it is still a quality vinyl pressing.

I don't feel that withholding information is the same as lying but Mo-Fi could have been more transparent. They could have spun the digital step as means to preserve the original tapes and to prevent the need for further generation analogue copies, which would further reduce sound quality. Yes they may have felt that revealing all would hurt sales but now that the cat is out of the bag that should no longer be an issue.

Can't we simply move along, bankrupting Mo-Fi will mean less audiophile quality digital releases as well. If you want to sue, sue the labels for butchering the re-releases by brickwalling them. That is a lawsuit that I would support!
 
par4ken said:
Sadly law suits seem to be part of the "American way". All that will be gained is the bankruptcy of Mo-fi at worst, Mo-fi discontinuing vinyl at best. I wonder how proceeds of a suit would be paid out. Would you need proof of purchase? What would even be a fair settlement? Its not that the product is realy defective, it is still a quality vinyl pressing.

I don't feel that withholding information is the same as lying but Mo-Fi could have been more transparent. They could have spun the digital step as means to preserve the original tapes and to prevent the need for further generation analogue copies, which would further reduce sound quality. Yes they may have felt that revealing all would hurt sales but now that the cat is out of the bag that should no longer be an issue.

Can't we simply move along, bankrupting Mo-Fi will mean less audiophile quality digital releases as well. If you want to sue, sue the labels for butchering the re-releases by brickwalling them. That is a lawsuit that I would support!
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I wouldn't be surprised if the firm gets a few million, and MoFi customers get vouchers for future releases. There'd probably be a claims agent which contacts people who ordered via the main sources, and otherwise you'd file a claim on the website.
 
par4ken said:
Can't we simply move along, bankrupting Mo-Fi will mean less audiophile quality digital releases as well. If you want to sue, sue the labels for butchering the re-releases by brickwalling them. That is a lawsuit that I would support!
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MoFi and similar companies are part of a cottage industry and can easily be ruined by legal action of this nature. This lawsuit makes no sense to me. It's not like they sell a product that people eat, yet fail to mention that the process includes rolling it in cow dung before packaging it...or something insane like that.
 
ar surround said:
MoFi and similar companies are part of a cottage industry and can easily be ruined by legal action of this nature. This lawsuit makes no sense to me. It's not like they sell a product that people eat, yet fail to mention that the process includes rolling it in cow dung before packaging it...or something insane like that.
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It makes sense for the lawyers; plaintiffs class action firms keep an active eye out for cases to bring and settle. It's a dodgy business, but lucrative. In theory these firms are protecting the public and providing legal resources an individual MoFi consumer could never afford. But there's some real perverse incentives baked into the system.

I should add that the Happy Birthday case was an example of the system working more or less correctly - Warner Chappell was demanding a license fee for every use of the song Happy Birthday, but it would have been totally inefficient for any individual person to fight. The cost of a license was low (perhaps because Warner Chappell knew it was likely worthless) so you were only talking about a couple of thousand dollars. So when they sued and got a declaration the copyright was expired, and several million dollars for the lawyers, it was a win-win. Of course, Warner Chappell has plenty of money and was more obviously a bad actor...
 
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ubertrout said:
It makes sense for the lawyers; plaintiffs class action firms keep an active eye out for cases to bring and settle. It's a dodgy business, but lucrative. In theory these firms are protecting the public and providing legal resources an individual MoFi consumer could never afford. But there's some real perverse incentives baked into the system.
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If the end product had sounded crap (and therefor was a waste of peoples money), there might be a case... But it didn't, so there isn't ;)
 
ubertrout said:
This is the same firm that sued Warner Chappell over its claims of copyright in Happy Birthday and won a settlement and declaration it was public domain. Guessing there will be a settlement, and this will seriously injure MFSL.
For context, firms like WAFH get paid a percentage out of a settlement and they're quite good at figuring out just how much to get. Folks who purchased MFSL discs will be entitled to settlement proceeds.
This is why you don't get transparency.
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..which is hilarious. In using their own digital cutting master, Mofi is aiming to maintain the highest fidelity to source tape while enabling vastly more workflow flexibility to cut the best lacquer they can... compared to cutting direct from analog master tape to lacquer.
 
This is really not much different from the Volkwagen mileage/emission scandal from a few years back. One way or another its a deception, even if you really cant hear it. No matter, the more adamant vinyl lovers will swear they CAN hear it.
 
ssully said:
..which is hilarious. In using their own digital cutting master, Mofi is aiming to maintain the highest fidelity to source tape while enabling vastly more workflow flexibility to cut the best lacquer they can... compared to cutting direct from analog master tape to lacquer.
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MFSL’s aim is to make far more copies at little additional fixed cost.

If they really thought it was because it makes the best cut, they would have said so up front and thoroughly explained why they believe it - by print, audio, & video.

My guess is they’re working on a campaign as we speak to loudly tout the benefits of using a 4xDSD step without actually proving the benefits…from day 1, even through different ownership, it‘s what MFSL has been truly great at.
 
marcb said:
MFSL’s aim is to make far more copies at little additional fixed cost.
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I covered that under 'more workflow flexibility'

And there's nothing wrong with doing it that way. It's smarter. No need to set up and re-play the analog master tape for the next production run (thereby wearing out that master tape just a little more...).

Smarter still would be to generate a PCM (has to be PCM, you can't tweak DSD) production master to which Mofi has applied whatever cutting mastering moves it deems necessary. Thereby 'automating' cutting EQ and ensuring that each pressing run is as sonically identical as can be.

But as I understand it, Mofi is still committed to the practice of manually (re)applying cutting EQ for each pressing. AFAICT, they don't make 'production masters'. Which seems curious if they really anticipate multiple production runs. Unless....Mofi is counting on vinylphiles to obsess over small differences between pressings? That would make Mofi *really* smart.






marcb said:
If they really thought it was because it makes the best cut, they would have said so up front and thoroughly explained why they believe it - by print, audio, & video.

My guess is they’re working on a campaign as we speak to loudly tout the benefits of using a 4xDSD step without actually proving the benefits…from day 1, even through different ownership, it‘s what MFSL has been truly great at.
Click to expand...
 
ssully said:
I covered that under 'more workflow flexibility'

And there's nothing wrong with doing it that way. It's smarter. No need to set up and re-play the analog master tape for the next production run (thereby wearing out that master tape just a little more...).

Smarter still would be to generate a PCM (has to be PCM, you can't tweak DSD) production master to which Mofi has applied whatever cutting mastering moves it deems necessary. Thereby 'automating' cutting EQ and ensuring that each pressing run is as sonically identical as can be.

But as I understand it, Mofi is still committed to the practice of manually (re)applying cutting EQ for each pressing. AFAICT, they don't make 'production masters'. Which seems curious if they really anticipate multiple production runs. Unless....Mofi is counting on vinylphiles to obsess over small differences between pressings? That would make Mofi *really* smart.
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“More workflow flexibility”…:ROFLMAO:

Again, if it was truly done for quality improvement reasons, MFSL would have made the case why and how. Not only didn’t they, they still haven’t.
 
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