More Big Big Train surround in progress

[Neil Palfreyman]

Just a quick heads up that this week I started working with Rob Aubrey on the surround mix for the third Big Big Train live Blu Ray.

It's a live recording of their November 2nd 2019 gig at the Hackney Empire, London. This was the final night of their first UK tour.

I don't know exactly when the Blu Ray will be released, and it doesn't have a working title yet, but Rob and I learnt a lot from the previous two Big Big Train Blu Ray projects that we worked together on ("Stone & Steel" and "Reflectors of Light"), and it shows in this project! The surround mixes that I've tested and provided input to so far (we're about half way through the set) are stunningly good: Excellent musicianship, superbly recorded and mixed in 5.1 with high dynamic range, very discrete and tastefully mixed to suit the context of the songs. They're a thoroughly engrossing listen!

I'll provide more updates as we progress and I get more information, but for now I would strongly suggest that this is on everyone's watch list!

 

[GOS]

Awesome Neil!!!

 

[colsky]

Excellent news! I was at this gig, and the performance was amazing. I was listening to an interview with Nick D'Virgilio, the drummer, the other day, and he also mentioned that this blu ray was being worked on, and that the band were on fire that night, which was the last gig of the tour.

 

[LuvMyQuad]

I look forward to any new BBT surround release. They are just stunning when it comes to performance, mix and fidelity. I would really like surround releases of some of the previous studio albums.

 

[Neil Palfreyman]

We've made some more progress today; the final "tweaks" on the first six tracks, plus one whole new track, which Rob has pretty much nailed on his first mix. It's sounding sooooooo good.

 

[Neil Palfreyman]

Another quick update from the mixing/play testing. I now have a complete set of mixes from Rob.
The way we work is to first establish a base mix using one or two tracks, and then work our way through a "staggered" cycle of refinements - "first mix", then "major fixes" then "final tweaks" for all tracks. If the first mix is extremely good (and Rob's hit over 50% on this project) we'll skip the middle stage and go from first to final.
Rob sends me six wav files straight out of Pro Tools which I convert to multi channel flacs that I store on a NAS so I can stream them to either of my two players, which are in different rooms.
This process means I'm often play testing several tracks at different stages at any one point in time. Right now we have about half of the Blu Ray (six tracks) complete and ready for final approval by Greg Spawton. I have another five between "major" and "final" and one track at first mix stage.

I play test each iteration of each track on two systems; one's a "mid-high end" Cambridge Audio/Acoustic Energy EVO set up in a dedicated listening room. The second is a consumer level system with an Oppo BD player, Yamaha amp and un-matched B&W speakers in a "living room" type set up. I'll also often switch speaker sizes to check the low end in both sub woofer and front speakers, too. I try to do no more than an hour's testing in one sitting, and often much less, just to make sure my ears don't get fatigued!
So I have quite a busy weekend ahead!

Despite the intense workload, it's been *very* enjoyable. These mixes are the third set that we have worked on together and they could easily be the best yet.

I hope this brief description has been of some interest to you!

Rob sent me some screen shots from his Pro Tools rig. I guess the thing most people will notice is how dynamic and un-compressed the channels are.

As I said in an earlier post; this BD is going to be highly recommended (the BBT guys tend to put them out at great value prices, too!)

 

[GOS]

Neil - this is the kind of info we ALL love to read about. So very cool, and thanks for including us, just a bit. Can't wait.

 

[Marplot]

I am really glad/impressed to hear your use of different systems in different rooms while listening to the mixes.
I have only recently even heard of BBT (thank wallet crushing QQ) and need to get some. Sounds like the recent live BR is a good jumping off point.

 

[Neil Palfreyman]

I am really glad/impressed to hear your use of different systems in different rooms while listening to the mixes.
I have only recently even heard of BBT (thank wallet crushing QQ) and need to get some. Sounds like the recent live BR is a good jumping off point.

It's the only way to play test, really. There are just too many variables in systems, configurations and set ups to do otherwise.

If you like thoughtful, complex rock/prog with exceptional musicianship and a pastoral and quintessentially English feel, you'll love BTT. Their releases tend to be realistically priced too, which is a breath of fresh air.

 

[Marplot]

I'll find out soon enough, just ordered Reflectors Of Light

 

[Bravado]

Hi Neil, Thanks for Your information. Very interesting to see how the progress evolves. I love the music of BBT and I sure hope they will release their complete backlog in BR surround.

 

[Neil Palfreyman]

A quick update on this - we're almost ready to send all of the mixes for final approval, and I've recently had chance to see the video footage too. It's extremely good - even better than the previous two gig videos that they've recorded.

This is going to be a "reference quality" live album BD, imho

 

[Marplot]

Thanks for sharing Neil. Reflectors Of Light will be here on Friday so if it is good as everyone says my voice will join the chorus of 'release the older stuff in 5.1'

 

[Simon_LDT]

This is fantastic news, very much looking forward to both this live show and the Underfall Yard in 5.1 and hi-res stereo (especially The Underfall Yard which has a compressed original release from 2009 and I can't wait to hear it with full dynamics like Full Power had done).

 

[JediJoker]

Rob sends me six wav files straight out of Pro Tools which I convert to multi channel flacs...

Rob should be able to print internally within Pro Tools | HD/Ultimate to a 5.1 channel track, or potentially even bounce (online or offline) straight out of Pro Tools to a 6-channel WAV/AIFF file. The channels will be in SMPTE order—L, R, C, LFE, Ls, Rs—which is what most players expect for PCM. Regardless, the metadata should direct any player to map the channels correctly. I've done one surround mix in Pro Tools and the resulting 6-channel internally-printed-then-exported WAV/AIFF/converted FLAC plays perfectly on my Oppo BDP-103D. This will remove one step from the process.

...the Underfall Yard in 5.1 and hi-res stereo (especially The Underfall Yard which has a compressed original release from 2009 and I can't wait to hear it with full dynamics like *the remaster of English Electric had done).

Any word on this from Rob, @Neil Palfreyman?

(Minor correction, @Simon_LDT: Full Power was just as compressed as the individual volumes. The much less compressed 2-CD remaster retained the Full Power track listing, but was simply titled "English Electric." A full 5dB of increased average DR!)

 

[Neil Palfreyman]

Rob should be able to print internally within Pro Tools | HD/Ultimate to a 5.1 channel track, or potentially even bounce (online or offline) straight out of Pro Tools to a 6-channel WAV/AIFF file. The channels will be in SMPTE order—L, R, C, LFE, Ls, Rs—which is what most players expect for PCM. Regardless, the metadata should direct any player to map the channels correctly. I've done one surround mix in Pro Tools and the resulting 6-channel internally-printed-then-exported WAV/AIFF/converted FLAC plays perfectly on my Oppo BDP-103D. This will remove one step from the process.

Any word on this from Rob, @Neil Palfreyman?

(Minor correction, @Simon_LDT: Full Power was just as compressed as the individual volumes. The much less compressed 2-CD remaster retained the Full Power track listing, but was simply titled "English Electric." A full 5dB of increased average DR!)

The Underfall Yard 5.1 is definitely being talked about and the band are trying to gauge the amount of support for 5.1 A recent thread on their Facebook page canvassed opinions and the response seemed to be positive, so fingers crossed! (If anyone wants to add support to the thread, I'm sure it would help!) As soon as I know I'll let you know.

Printing direct to flac would be ideal and speed transfers up significantly. I'll pass it on, thanks. SMPTE order is what I build with Audacity. I think it's pretty close to a universal standard.

As for reduced compression on stereo mixes; the band (mainly Greg) jumped off the "loudness war" horse around the time of English Electric, hence the remaster. The albums and EPs since ("Folklore", "Grimspound", "Grand Tour" etc) have been very much more dynamic.

 

[Neil Palfreyman]

...another quick progress update on this, as it's been a while: I received the first test pressing of the Blu Ray today, much against the odds, as our local postal service was shut down yesterday due to a Covid outbreak at the sorting office!

First couple of plays through, and its sounding and looking absolutely glorious, and (more to the point) is exactly as I expected/hoped, with everything in the right place. I can't wait for this to get out there.

 

[haikubass]

Pre-order link's up: Empire
A Loudersound article: Big Big Train release video for Winkie and slim down to a quartet

 

[César]

Dave Gregory and Rachel Hall leaving BBT, not good

 

[LuvMyQuad]

I'll certainly buy this because the other BBT Live releases have been so good, but... enough with the live versions. How about some studio catalog releases in surround.