More stealth quad albums

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jaybird100

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I'm back! Somehow QQ thought my email had permanently died (it was down for two days due to a weather-caused power failure). I could not find anyone to contact without logging in (which was not allowed).

ABBA records were put through the Haeco processor, as most Atlantic records were then. This makes center front stuff come from the back channels in SQ. The Tijuana Brass albums also went through that process, as did some Neil Diamond albums on Uni. The Haeco CSG logo is on the label in many cases.
That may be true for the American pressings, although I would expect they wouldn't add any processing not included by Polar Records. The Haeco process wouldn't have been used on their European pressed albums, of which I have several. To me, they sound better than the Atlantic pressings simply because better vinyl was used.
 

MidiMagic

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Thanks @MidiMagic. :) Glad your back.


Can you possibly list all the Vangelis albums you recommend for SQ ?

I assume they were all on the RCA label, at least at one time.
Somehow this thread never reappeared on the Yesterday's Activity. There are a lot of threads (including some of mine) that drop off and never come back, though more posts were added.

The three I have that seem to be in SQ are:

Heaven and Hell
Chariots of Fire
Opera Sauvage

All are RCA.

I have more Vangelis albums, but they are on a different label. I hear no quad activity on them.
 

fizzywiggs41

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Somehow this thread never reappeared on the Yesterday's Activity. There are a lot of threads (including some of mine) that drop off and never come back, though more posts were added.

The three I have that seem to be in SQ are:

Heaven and Hell
Chariots of Fire
Opera Sauvage

All are RCA.

I have more Vangelis albums, but they are on a different label. I hear no quad activity on them.

Not that the Record label should matter with any matrix encoded album , but my "Chariots Of Fire" is on Polygram.
(Unless of course it's been remixed)

Not a remix BTW.
20210927_202716.jpg
20210927_202707.jpg
 

J. PUPSTER

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Somehow this thread never reappeared on the Yesterday's Activity. There are a lot of threads (including some of mine) that drop off and never come back, though more posts were added.

The three I have that seem to be in SQ are:

Heaven and Hell
Chariots of Fire
Opera Sauvage

All are RCA.

I have more Vangelis albums, but they are on a different label. I hear no quad activity on them.
I would like to see a pic of that RCA Chariots Of Fire LP please, if you can swing it?
 

jaybird100

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I would be very interested in your source for most of your post. "Tommy" is a well known QS release, but Polydor as a label never released any quad albums.

I find it hard to believe that ABBA released any quad albums, especially in Matrix H or UMX. There were no european UMX releases, all were released in Japan, with few major artists.

You do see somewhat fixcated on the UMX format, as your last posting i replied to.

What we like here is proof behind postings, so please do supply, especially Vangellis (you sure your not geting confused with Klaus Schulze who did have a few early SQ albums)

And most movie soundtracks being in Dolby Surround (urgh), movie soundtracks are mixed in different sessions to that for soundtrack albums, the surround mixing only happens when the whole film soundtrack is mixed. Again, unless you can provide proof

OD
According to ABBA's recording engineer, their albums are stereo; no surround matrix of any kind used.
 

jaybird100

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To clarify, I own a Sansui QSD-1 as I stated in my previous post. That's about as good a decoder for QS as it gets! Had hoped prehaps someone knowledgable about the QSD-1 would elaborate on the difference between its "QS" and "Surround" modes. I was also asking whether a surround mode like Dolby PL or other comes close to actual QS decoding.
The "RM" setting on the Pioneer is the appropriate one for QS.
 

fredblue

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which exact version (format, catalogue number, etc., as much info as anyone can give) of the Tommy OST is the QS-encoded Quad, please?

i ask since i've never been able to find it and none of the versions i have (UK LPs, UK cassette, European CDs) resemble the Quintaphonic mix that's on DVD/BD.
 

fizzywiggs41

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To the best of my knowledge , it's all on Polydor. Each and every Country.I have both the U.S. and Canadian copies.

All copies s/b QS to a small extent , as the movie soundtrack was 4ch QS with a mono discrete center added.
So all copies of the soundtrack won't be as accurate as the 5.0 BD or DVD as they are Five Channel Quintaphonic and not Four Channel. (Quadraphonic)

It's worth noting Polydor being very non comittal with any quad system* , never denied the record as being QS.
But then it did improve the sales with that little tidbit.

Also the use of Sansui w/ Quintaphonic was by the soundtrack artist's choice and not by Polydor nor Columbia Pictures . As it was the prerogative of John Mosely of Quintaphonic fame who btw was a paid promotor for Sansui's QS. Much the same as Jerry Lebow in the U.S.
In fact his Studio in Paris (IIRC) , Ferber , was set up for soundtracks , and of course recording artist's albums .
And was intact with quad recording and naturally a QS encoder .



*with a couple of exceptions , like Q8's in Canada , and both CD-4 , RM LP's in Japan , but very few all told.
 

fredblue

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To the best of my knowledge , it's all on Polydor. Each and every Country.I have both the U.S. and Canadian copies.

All copies s/b QS to a small extent , as the movie soundtrack was 4ch QS with a mono discrete center added.
So all copies of the soundtrack won't be as accurate as the 5.0 BD or DVD as they are Five Channel Quintaphonic and not Four Channel. (Quadraphonic)

It's worth noting Polydor being very non comittal with any quad system* , never denied the record as being QS.
But then it did improve the sales with that little tidbit.

Also the use of Sansui w/ Quintaphonic was by the soundtrack artist's choice and not by Polydor nor Columbia Pictures . As it was the prerogative of John Mosely of Quintaphonic fame who btw was a paid promotor for Sansui's QS. Much the same as Jerry Lebow in the U.S.
In fact his Studio in Paris (IIRC) , Ferber , was set up for soundtracks , and of course recording artist's albums .
And was intact with quad recording and naturally a QS encoder .



*with a couple of exceptions , like Q8's in Canada , and both CD-4 , RM LP's in Japan , but very few all told.
this is all a bit baffling, fizzy.. i need to check it all out more carefully but i'm pretty sure those old LPs etc are different from the Quintaphonic on the DVD.
 

fredblue

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from what's on the album and what's in the movie, they are absolutely not the same.

if the LP is some kind of Quad then its something else and distinct from the movie's Surround mix.

i know Elton's Pinball Wizard pretty well and that track on my old Tommy OST tape, LP and CD doesn't resemble the Quintaphonic but is more like the version on his Greatest Hits Vol 2 compilation.

the movie version has all these sound effects and reverb and stuff on it and there's panning/steering as well.. how odd!
 

fredblue

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if you can find me a Tommy soundtrack LP that sounds like this i'll be thrilled - and utterly amazed!!


straight off there's a different intro with synthesiser rather than the usual vocals of Davey, Dee and Nigel.. Elton's voice is full of reverb where the LP version is much dryer.. all the little refrain/call & response vocals "how do you think he does it?" etc are sung by the crowd rather than Elton... Davey Johnstone's guitar solo is all but wiped out.. Pete comes in with some overdubbed guitar and then The Who all smash the place up accompanied by various effects.. there's phasing and panning and all sorts. wow! they are totally different, i'd forgotten just how much!!
 

jaybird100

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To the best of my knowledge , it's all on Polydor. Each and every Country.I have both the U.S. and Canadian copies.

All copies s/b QS to a small extent , as the movie soundtrack was 4ch QS with a mono discrete center added.
So all copies of the soundtrack won't be as accurate as the 5.0 BD or DVD as they are Five Channel Quintaphonic and not Four Channel. (Quadraphonic)

It's worth noting Polydor being very non comittal with any quad system* , never denied the record as being QS.
But then it did improve the sales with that little tidbit.

Also the use of Sansui w/ Quintaphonic was by the soundtrack artist's choice and not by Polydor nor Columbia Pictures . As it was the prerogative of John Mosely of Quintaphonic fame who btw was a paid promotor for Sansui's QS. Much the same as Jerry Lebow in the U.S.
In fact his Studio in Paris (IIRC) , Ferber , was set up for soundtracks , and of course recording artist's albums .
And was intact with quad recording and naturally a QS encoder .



*with a couple of exceptions , like Q8's in Canada , and both CD-4 , RM LP's in Japan , but very few all told.
The soundtrack album may not, necessarily, be the same mix as what was on the movie soundtrack. Whether or not it's QS-encoded is anybody's guess, unless someone involved in the mixing stage speaks up.
 

atrocity

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i wonder if the Quintaphonic ever was a discrete 5-channel original or if it was only ever 3-channels with QS encoding? 🤔
There may have been some specialty exceptions somewhere, but as far as I know the only way to get more than four discrete tracks on film in 1975 was to use 70mm. The standard layout for 70mm prints was *five* discrete channels behind the screen and mono surround. I don't know if Tommy was ever printed to 70mm, but if so, using those prints to re-create the quint mix would require the theater to rewire its surround speakers.

Having said that, the theaters had to do that same rewiring to properly present the 35mm version, so maybe it happened.
 

fredblue

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There may have been some specialty exceptions somewhere, but as far as I know the only way to get more than four discrete tracks on film in 1975 was to use 70mm. The standard layout for 70mm prints was *five* discrete channels behind the screen and mono surround. I don't know if Tommy was ever printed to 70mm, but if so, using those prints to re-create the quint mix would require the theater to rewire its surround speakers.

Having said that, the theaters had to do that same rewiring to properly present the 35mm version, so maybe it happened.
i've done a bit of digging and disc ripping and discovered there are at least two versions of the Quintaphonic out there on commercially released home video!

the 2004 2-disc Collector's Edition DVD set from Prism Leisure/Odyssey Quest in the UK, which says it utilizes the 3-track QS-encoded master decoded with a Sansui decoder (model unspecified) separating the Rears from the Fronts.

the 2010 35th Anniversary Blu-ray from Sony/Columbia Pictures has a 5.1 mix (which i haven't scrutinized yet) and the Quintaphonic in 5.0, however in this instance the latter must be from the 5-track tapes because it is fully discrete!!

the 5.0/Quintaphonic presentation on the UK DVD has reverbed and bled info from the Front channels in the Rears, whereas the Blu-ray 5.0/Quintaphonic Soundtrack has no such reverbed vocals or artefacts in the Rears, its quite something to check out the channels in isolation from the 5.0 mix on that Blu-ray!!
 

jaybird100

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There may have been some specialty exceptions somewhere, but as far as I know the only way to get more than four discrete tracks on film in 1975 was to use 70mm. The standard layout for 70mm prints was *five* discrete channels behind the screen and mono surround. I don't know if Tommy was ever printed to 70mm, but if so, using those prints to re-create the quint mix would require the theater to rewire its surround speakers.

Having said that, the theaters had to do that same rewiring to properly present the 35mm version, so maybe it happened.
As I remember, one of the audio tracks on the film was magnetic. I believe it may have been the center channel.
 

atrocity

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As I remember, one of the audio tracks on the film was magnetic. I believe it may have been the center channel.
Back in 1975, the only mainstream way to get more than mono on film was to use magnetic tracks for all channels.

"SVA" or "Stereo Variable Area" (i.e., more than one channel on an optical soundtrack) was known to be possible decades earlier (though I don't know the exact details) but from the early 1950s until Dolby Stereo in the mid-late 1970s, a theater advertising stereo sound was either using interlock (a separate "dubber" running synchronized full-coat 35mm magnetic), four tracks on a 35mm print or six tracks on a 70mm print.

Interlocked separate audio was used for some 3-D features as well as Cinerama, which meant that up to four separate machines had to be kept in perfect sync in the days long before digital!
 

atrocity

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the 5.0/Quintaphonic presentation on the UK DVD has reverbed and bled info from the Front channels in the Rears, whereas the Blu-ray 5.0/Quintaphonic Soundtrack has no such reverbed vocals or artefacts in the Rears, its quite something to check out the channels in isolation from the 5.0 mix on that Blu-ray!!
Very interesting! Does it seem like they're really meant to be the same track but one has technical limitations?

I ask because the text on the original US DVD was always a bit ambiguous to me as far as how truly accurate the 5.0 version is.
 
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