MSNBC: Music Industry Takes A Step Backwards

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bmoura

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Another recent article on Dual Disc from MSNBC.Com:

DualDiscs are half-CD, half-DVD and half-baked
Music industry takes a step backward

COMMENTARY
By Gary Krakow
Columnist
MSNBC
Updated: 9:52 p.m. ET March 22, 2005

NEW YORK - Sony has been dealing with LCDs for years. Liquid crystal displays abound in their phones, PDAs, computers and TVs. Now Sony is embracing another kind of LCD: lowest common denominator. Instead of promoting Super Audio CDs — a 21st century music format that Sony invented — the company has decided to take a step backward, by offering yet another confusing format that I believe is bound to fail.

A DualDisc looks like most CDs or DVDs. That’s because it is two-sided hybrid. On one side is the full-length CD audio album. The other side offers DVD content which might include enhanced album audio, 5.1 surround sound, music videos, artist interviews, behind-the-scenes footage, documentary films, photo galleries, lyrics, computer-ready digital song files or Web links. The content depends on the artist.

The main selling point here is that the DVD side of the DualDisc offers what the music industry is touting as superior audio. Many DualDiscs include surround sound mixes that have been specially created during the recording process. When listened to on a 5.1 channel surround system, the result is a rich, three-dimensional musical experience.

In theory, you don’t need any special new equipment to play a DualDisc. The DVD side plays wherever a DVD plays, including many gaming consoles and computers. DualDiscs with computer extras and Web links can be used in a PC like a DVD-ROM. The CD side holds as much music as a regular CD but the DVD side holds less than a normal DVD.

The CD side plays on all but a limited number of CD and DVD players. However, to take full advantage of DualDiscs that feature surround sound, you’ll need a 5.1 channel surround system. The DVD side might contain high-resolution DVD-Audio. Then again it might not. DualDiscs won’t contain SACD audio. Sony seems to have abandoned the great-sounding technology.

The asterisk
Did you notice that subtle warning that DualDiscs will play in "all but a limited number" of machines? DualDiscs come with asterisks and cautions all over the place: a sticker on the cellophane wrapper, highlighted text on the DualDisc box and a little blow-in card inside all tell you:

“The audio side of this disc does not conform to CD specifications and therefore not all DVD and CD players will play the audio side of this disc.”

The problem is the width of the disc. By fusing a CD and a DVD the hybrid disc is slightly thicker and doesn’t really confirm to what is called the "red book" CD standard. The difference in thickness is difficult to see, hence the warnings.

Manufacturers are worried that someone may have trouble using a DualDisc in an old slot-loaded CD or DVD player but the industry line is that so far there have been few if any complaints.

Not true, says my local retailer, a very large music and electronics superstore in lower Manhattan. I went in there today to buy a few DualDiscs and was told that they were seeing a lot of returns. The gentleman behind the counter said that said maybe three discs a week were coming back because they didn’t play properly, or at all, on customer’s machines.

Three discs a week may not sound like a lot, but he said that they don’t sell that many of them. He added that customers also complained about the quality of the 5.1 surround sound and the video programming on the DVD sides.

On the other hand, I’m happy to report that I had no problems playing my DualDiscs either in my cars or at home. That includes a number of CD/SACD and DVD players, PCs and laptops. As expected, of course, the DVD side doesn’t play in my Sony 9000ES CD/SACD machine.

I now have three DualDiscs in my possession: "Rebirth," by Jennifer Lopez, "Back in Black" by AC/DC, and the Miles Davis’ classic "Kind of Blue." "Rebirth" comes with a documentary plus two video versions of "Get Right." The DVD side of "Back in Black" comes with a version of the entire album in Superior Sound, a film on the making of the album and an on-screen discography. "Kind of Blue" comes with a 5.1 channel surround sound version, the documentary "Made in Heaven" and a historic photo gallery.

Sound wise, my DualDiscs range from horrible and one-dimensional ("Rebirth") to average CD quality good (the other two). I’ve watched the included videos and thought they looked fine. The two-channel audio on the DVD side sounded OK coming from my HDTV’s speakers. I don’t have a surround sound system set up at the moment so I can’t comment on that.

The DualDiscs cost $13.99 each. The CD-only version of the J. Lo album was selling for the same price as the DualDisc. The older AC/DC and Miles Davis albums were selling for $9.99 on CD. The extra material was nice, but not worth the extra $4.

The J. Lo pricing raises another question. If the CD and DualDisc versions are selling for the same price, why buy the CD? More importantly, why isn’t the CD selling for less if it has fewer features? Maybe if record companies started lowering the price of CDs then CD sales might be able to compete with MP3s and popular downloading services. People might think twice about spending $9.99 for a download from iTunes if the actual CD sold for the same price.

Being able to play DualDiscs on current hardware is a terrific idea — except for one big glaring fact: Sony is a hardware maker. In the past, new software technology (cassettes, 8-track, CD, DVD) always needed new players, boosting sales in other divisions. This new technology does not. From a business point of view, what was Sony thinking?

Then there’s the audio on the DVD side. Sony decided to throw in the towel on their hi-res SACD format for their competitors’ DVD-Audio or 5.1 surround. After spending millions on a terrific hardware/software format, they’ve just given up. The latest SACDs play on both CD and SACD players — and many times, they cost the same as the CD version. Why didn’t Sony add a DVD side to that disc? Hopefully, some other company will add SACD audio to their DualDiscs.

BMG, EMI, Warner Music Group, and Universal are joining Sony in marketing these discs. The big test will come at the end of April when the new Bruce Springsteen album is released only on DualDisc, not CD. I’m hoping the album is released on vinyl too. That just might be the version to hear.

URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7269012/
 
bmoura said:
Sony decided to throw in the towel on their hi-res SACD format for their competitors’ DVD-Audio or 5.1 surround.
Did Sony ever put out DVD-Audio, I don't think so. If they would start doing that, it would mean the end of the "format war" :cool: (SonyMusic against Sony Electronics??)
I'm on the safe side having purchased a Universal player :D
 
Great piece. Bad decision by Sony. I WANT MY SACD!!!! :(
 
He's right. The Sony DualDisc's just don't cut it. Without hi-rez surround what is the point? I don't have any Sony DualDiscs and I probably never will. I do have Universal titles though and all those have hi-rez (24 bit) surround. Why does Sony even bother?
 
Why can't Sony do a DualDisc with a Hybrid SACD stuck to a video DVD?
 
JonUrban said:
Why can't Sony do a DualDisc with a Hybrid SACD stuck to a video DVD?
Or better yet, the "redbook" side. Having a hybrid SACD side (with it's own redbook layer) and a standard redbook side would be kinda redundant, wouldn't it?

Actually, the idea of a hybrid b/w DVD-A dual disc jumped in my head the other day. THAT would be the best solution, in my opinion. I'm sure, however, there's some sort of technical reason this can't be done, but alas...

Great article, by the way - probably one of the clearest, accurate articles written about the format wars I've seen in the "mainstream" media so far. Although, I think the headline is a bit alarmist - it probably should have more accurately been called "Sony Takes a Step Backwards," as there are plenty of other labels who are still progressing nicely in both the DVD-A and SACD formats. So far, it seems Sony is the only one treading water (if not outright sinking).
 
Sony could use a SACD/DVD-video as video is the only thing sacd is lacking
 
Whatever happend to "SACD II", that was Sony was rumored to be working on (to add video to SACD, like DVD-Audio) ??
 
The "new" math, Sony Style:

SACD II = ((SACD + VIDEO) - SA) = CD + VIDEO = DualDisc

UGH!
 
To be quite honest here, what matters is the multichannel mixes - at least to me it is all that matters.
I simply do not care about the redbook layer, or a CD side at all.
These days, the CD layers or releases are brickwall limited to within an inch of their lives, you can see this for yourself by simply extracting the audio from any CD and looking at it in an audio editor.
You'll be lucky if the Average RMS is anything lower than -10dB, more usually well up towards -5dB.
This stinks.
Dome well, a CD is actually capable of much better dynamic range than is currently done.
Yet it is not done this way in the stupid quest for a "louder" pressing.
We now have oversampling brickwall limiters to squeeze yet more out.
Pointless.
There is a simple solution to the loudness issue, and that is to turn up the amp.

Back to multichannel.
DVD-A/V "universals" can do the complete job, plus will play on all DVD players available.
With a DVD9 disc, or even bigger, you'll get the 24/48 or 24/96 5.1 mix, a 24/96 stereo, a 16/48 stereo, A dolby Digital and a DTS surround version too. And any video related content, when authored correctly, will all be accessible in a DVD-A player from the same menu.
Warners, for whatever reason, do not seem to do this.
Sony hate DVD-A as they do not own all the patents.

DVD-A/V is the way to go.
It does everything needed.
Who cares about redbook please?
 
neil wilkes said:
Who cares about redbook please?

Not me. I don't think I have ever actually played the redbook layer on any of the Hybrid SACD's that I have. I too hate the brickwalling. Dynamics are where it is at.
 
surroundophile said:
Whatever happend to "SACD II", that was Sony was rumored to be working on (to add video to SACD, like DVD-Audio) ??

The video capabilities of SACD have always been part of the "Purple Book" SACD specs. As far as bringing out a product named "SACD II", the SACD folks say they are no plans to do that.
 
When you get right down to it, CD is really obsolete. If all players were DVD disc players, music "CD" type discs would play, and the time restraint would be virtually gone. Video would not be a requirement, it's just a disc player. In the global scheme of things, there is nothing that a CD player does that a DVD player cannot do.
 
bmoura said:
The video capabilities of SACD have always been part of the "Purple Book" SACD specs. As far as bringing out a product named "SACD II", the SACD folks say they are no plans to do that.

Does that mean that neither DSD128 or DXD are going ahead then?
 
neil wilkes said:
Does that mean that neither DSD128 or DXD are going ahead then?

DSD128 and DXD have been around for some time. In fact, the audiophile SACD gear from Meitner is based on DSD128 !
 
neil wilkes said:
To be quite honest here, what matters is the multichannel mixes - at least to me it is all that matters.
I simply do not care about the redbook layer, or a CD side at all.
These days, the CD layers or releases are brickwall limited to within an inch of their lives.
Who cares about redbook please?


I'd say bingo, but I do like having a CD layer, mostly so I can play disks in my car or a friend's.

As for the other stuff -- videos, games, bingo cards, cents-off coupons (trust me, they're coming) -- I not only don't care, but find them to be annoying bloatware.

As for today's compressed CD's, I suddenly wonder why I didn't see this coming. Some of the early all-digital CD's I bought in 1984 could actually blow your speakers if you weren't careful. Now engineers are doing the same damn thing they did with records and radio, crushing all the life out to make them loud, loud, LOUD! Now many have become a digital version of 1970's FM radio on a disk. Disgraceful.

The article contains these unintentional sparklers:
"When listened to on a 5.1 channel surround system, the result is a rich, three-dimensional musical experience."

followed by:

"I don’t have a surround sound system set up at the moment so I can’t comment on that."
 
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