DVD/DTS Poll Mudvayne - The End Of All Things To Come [DD DualDisc]

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Rate the DualDisc of Mudvayne - THE END OF ALL THINGS TO COME

  • 10 Great mix, Great Sonics, Great Content

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 5

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 4

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 3

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 2

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 1 Bad Mix, Bad Sonics, Bad Content

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    10

YmSeb

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Bob, I think it's pretty normal if nobody submitted a post or a vote : this DualDisc doesn't exit :D

The correct album title is Lost And Found. This is their third album (debuted at n°2 on Billboard with 152,000 units sold last week).

The End Of All Things To Come was their previous album and it's not on DualDisc (no reissue planned - too bad since the production and mix were by David Bottrill and a 5.1 treatment could be amazing).

So I'm going to speak about the Lost And Found DualDisc.

The DVD side is pure DVD-Video and features :
1. Entire album in enhanced stereo
2. "Determined" and "IMN" in studio videos
3. Behind-the-scenes footage
4. "Happy?" video (rough version)
5. Exclusive, never before seen photos

Let me precise what the "enhanced stereo" is... PCM 48kHz/16bits :mad:

What's the point ? :confused:

There was room to encode at 24 bits...

Anyway, the video features are cool. But you watch them once and that's it.

However, the album itself is damn good and was produced by Dave Fortman. My high-end system just loves this sound :phones
 

ThomC

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Actually, this disc does exist.
With new 5.1 mixes, (By me! :) )
Struggled with this mix a bit, but I hope you guys like it.
 

YmSeb

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Thom,

I'm totally in awe ! :mad:@:

As a big high-res/surround music AND Mudvayne fan, I don't understand how I managed not to know that The End... had been reissued on DualDisc one week ago ! On the Mudvayne site, they did not talk about it at all :confused:

Anyway, I just found this DualDisc on Amazon.com... and on Sony Music website too. They don't say what are the specs of the 5.1 mix.

Thom, as you did it ;) , can you tell us what is it exactly ? (Dolby Digital ? or - let's dream - MLP ? what about the sampling rate, quantization...)

I guess it was awesome to have access to the seperate tracks of this album recorded and produced by the mighty David Bottrill...

Did the band had some creative input into the surround mix ?

Thanks a lot for your answers ! :)
 

ThomC

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Briefly, I delivered 48k/24 bit masters.
I believe it is Dolby at that rate, (but don't know for sure as I don't have this disc).
I was hired because I had done the 5.1 mix of "Not Falling" that was released as a
DVD Single some time back.
Neither the band nor David were there for the mix, though the band did listen to and
approve the mixes for release, (after I did a couple of tweeks).
 

YmSeb

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ThomC said:
Briefly, I delivered 48k/24 bit masters.
I believe it is Dolby at that rate, (but don't know for sure as I don't have this disc).
I was hired because I had done the 5.1 mix of "Not Falling" that was released as a
DVD Single some time back.
Wow ! I'm very glad because I have this DVD Single and I thought that "Not Falling" was absolutely brilliant in this 5.1 mix. Spectacular bass treatment, and no cheesy effects - the rears are there just when needed (this is something particularly true with metal music - otherwise you ruin its energy). That's why I was secretly praying for the same treatment for the whole album :D

So let me congratulate you. I have to buy again The End Of All Things To Come in DualDisc then, but I don't mind since this was one of my all-time fav' metal album.

This is just too bad that it's not in MLP - 48kHz/24bits would have been SO MUCH better than Dolby Digital (I guess you're right, it must be DD since Amazon really states DVD-Video as for the DVD side and not DVD-A). But that's obviously not your fault...

Anyway that's why I'm afraid that DualDisc may kill DVD-Audio - all the surround mixes may go on a DVD-Video side of DualDisc's and high-res lovers may end with "only" Dolby Digital as this is what most people can read. I don't see a lot of DualDisc with a DVD-Audio side ! :mad:

ThomC said:
Neither the band nor David were there for the mix, though the band did listen to and
approve the mixes for release, (after I did a couple of tweeks).
Well, if the whole surround treatment is as good as the "Not Falling" one on the DVD Single, I understand they approved (y)
 

Bob Romano

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ThomC said:
Actually, this disc does exist.
With new 5.1 mixes, (By me! :) )
Struggled with this mix a bit, but I hope you guys like it.
The only way I am adding discs is if I actually see them in the stores. I bought this one. Was going to buy Lost & Found as well but Best Buy had NONE!! It was the one on sale and they had NONE!! They had about 100 copies of TEOATTC but that was $13.99. Bonus that the mix is done by Thom C. So Thom... you're not credited anywhere that I can see. A first on all the DualDiscs I have... Is your mix the original 5.1 mix or did you do a completely different 5.1 mix for a re-release?

By the way... not a big Mudvayne fan but it is surround so I gave it a shot.

So what exactly were your struggles with the mix... if you can say.
 

ThomC

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Bob Romano said:
...So Thom... you're not credited anywhere that I can see. A first on all the DualDiscs I have....
Bob,
The only credit I really care about is the one in my bank account!!! :D :D

Bob Romano said:
Is your mix the original 5.1 mix or did you do a completely different 5.1 mix for a re-release?
Only mixed each song once, "Not Falling" is the same mix on both releases.

Bob Romano said:
By the way... not a big Mudvayne fan but it is surround so I gave it a shot.
On the one hand, why buy something you don't like just because it's 5.1?
On the other hand, I think it's great that you're trying different genres. (y)

Bob Romano said:
...So what exactly were your struggles with the mix... if you can say.
As YmSeb noted, it is very easy to lose the power of the music by pulling the individual pieces apart.
Much of the sound of a band like this comes from density not clarity.
It's not a very easy thing to do, staying musically and sonicly true to the original,
while still trying to make something interesting enough to warrant the money being spent to make a new version.
 

YmSeb

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ThomC said:
Bob,
The only credit I really care about is the one in my bank account!!! :D :D
Right ;) , but we're only at the beginning of the music in surround area, and it would be cool if we, the consumers, were able to read in the liners who did the surround mix, because this way we can see who we like or not... there is still too much 5.1 releases (whatever the format) with no credits for the surround mix ! This is a shame. Sometimes, like with Silverline, the mix has been done by a machine, so shame on them anyway (n)

For instance, I usually listen to all records produced/mixed by David Bottrill or Rick Rubin because sonically I just love what they do, and I also discover at the same time some bands I would never have listened to otherwise :D

So we almost all love Elliot Scheiner for his surround mixes and you're very good too Thom, and we need to have more people like this. If the names don"t appear, it's a big loss in my opinion !

Anyway, Thom, you had been credited on the DVD Single :)

ThomC said:
Much of the sound of a band like this comes from density not clarity.
It's not a very easy thing to do, staying musically and sonicly true to the original,
while still trying to make something interesting enough to warrant the money being spent to make a new version.
Very interesting quote. I always wondered :

1) What if YOU don't like at all the music that you are supposed to mix in surround ? Would you decline ? I know you must live, but this is not like all usual offices jobs, where you have to do what you boss want. When it comes to music - surround mixes for instance - as you pointed out, your creativity is essential. I could understand that someone could not stand at all music like Mudvayne's, and I guess the surround mix would be a disaster.

2) Did the labels offer you to mix some music that was clearly not interesting at all to mix in surround ? Do some labels reissue some albums in surround just to cash in ? In that case, it must be very boring for you to force yourself to do it anyway, but I guess that if you don't do it, someone else will.
 
Last edited:

Cai Campbell

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ThomC said:
On the one hand, why buy something you don't like just because it's 5.1?
On the other hand, I think it's great that you're trying different genres. (y)
I'm like Bob. I'll buy just about anything released in surround-sound. I'm actually embarrassed to admit some of the crap I've bought. Personally, my main reason is to support ALL surround-sound releases! More crap coming out usually means more good stuff as well!

The other reason is that I like being adventurous and trying new things, especially when it comes to music. I've discovered A LOT of great music that way. I guess the bottom line is that the more product you expose yourself to the more great stuff you'll discover. The downside is you'll also end up loaded with a bunch of stuff you may not like. The other option is to restrict yourself and probably miss out on some cherry discoveries, but at least you'll limit the crap you end up with.

Anyway, that's my take... BTW I do like heavy metal music but probably would have overlooked Mudvayne if they hadn't released something in surround-sound. So there ya go. More surround product is a good thing!


ThomC said:
Much of the sound of a band like this comes from density not clarity.
Very interesting perspective. That makes a lot of sense. However, I don't think that a surround presentation has to match the stereo presentation. If the stereo presentation is the true product, then the surround presentation can be thought of as a "behind the scenes" view of that product. Actually, I enjoy comparing stereo mixes to surround mixes. The surround mix gives the listener insight into how the stereo mix was constructed. As a recording engineer, perhaps this privilege gets taken for granted. It gives us humble consumers a small view into your world, and is something I place a great deal of value on! For this reason, I generally prefer a more discrete mix, offering greater clarity to the individual elements of the mix.
 

Cai Campbell

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Just gave this one a spin. One word: AWESOME!

I think this title takes the cake as having the coolest graphical interface of any title I've seen. Not for any "gee whiz" effects or anything, just that the overall look and feel is perfectly suited to the package, and looks so bloody (literally) cool!

The surround mix perfectly suits the power of the music. You are totally enveloped in the bone-crushing power of the music. The recording quality is very good and is surprisingly clear considering the nature of the music.

Everything comes together on this title: the music, the mix, the print graphics, the on-screen graphics. It is (almost) a perfectly realized package. What's missing? The MLP track, of course. Ah, but nothing can be perfect, eh?
 

Angrom

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A great 8, really gives justice to the power of Mudvayne's Music.
It's a pity a surround mix wasn't done for Lost And Found
 

BananaSlug

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Picked this one up on eBay rather cheaply. I was surprised to see a warning on the front cover stating that it contains "strong language". Naturally I thought of a bumbling George W. Bush speech where every other word is 'strong', not the case here. I guess it's somebody in our government assigning their subjective view on verbal content, which we all know is objectively neutral. And the subject of small minded morons is, in fact, the topic of the first song - most excellent! Yes, everything in the universe is interrelated.

Not my normal type of music to listen to, but very well done. Sounds really pretty good - much better than the Rush DD mix which I use as a benchmark for how bad DD can be. And, a great mix. Not destined to be played often here, but a worth while purchase. Recommended if you like the music, a 7 here.
 

sev

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ThomC. I think I owe you a thank you, sir. Mudvayne is where I came up with my nickname sev ('severed' from LD 50). I love Mudvayne, but my taste has changed over the past few years since I really fell in love with LD 50. This album never really drove me wild. (Lost and Found did though for some reason... go figure) So on the music I'd give it a 5 or 6, but the surround mix really does it some justice anyway. Very well done, and it definitely makes to wall of distortion a bit easier to separate and hear the thought they put into their music.

now... Go snag the masters from 'L.D. 50' ;)


edit: just picked up 'Lost and Found' on dualdisc.... Did you do that one as well??? I can't WAIT for that to get here.
 

MyCuff

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Just got them both used on Amazon for $2.11 total before shipping. Still many cheap copies of each one. I like hard rock & metal, but normally not happy with DD surround. My chevelle DD disc never gets played. We shall see how this goes...
 

UNCDoug

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Started listening to this as something to keep the blood pumping during my cardio workouts, so I really dug listening to the MP3's. Had to find the "last copy" on amazon to hear how the surround mix was.

Very impressed. Lots of very cool effects on it. Extra voices in the back channels, guitars bouncing around to different speakers--I like it. The only argument I can make against it is that it's FREAKIN DOLBY!!! ARGH! The sound is so stifled. When the band hits hard in tracks 2 and 10, I was hoping it would just pop out of my speakers and blow me away, like Circle Of Manias on PT's The Incident. And when that's taken into account, the mask that Dolby covers over the music becomes more and more prevalent. It's sad. The more I listen to this disc, the more I like it. But that freakin Dolby...sigh...

For me, an 8. Would be a 9 or 10 for me if it were DVD-A and was louder.
 

GOS

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Another disc, I bought used from Big River......just a couple dollars. I'm quite pleased with this one. It rocks, very decent mix.....nice. I gave it an 8.
 

edisonbaggins

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Glad I found this thread. I was wondering who did the mix. Crappy that it was uncredited. Its perfectly done.
Yes, it's Dulby, so I won't go with 10. And, I don't loooove the music. But, it is Mrs. Baggynz approved.
So, it gets an 8.51, rounded up...
 
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