Multi-channel is not always better

[AVphile]

Loreena McKinnett is one of my all-time favorite singer/songwriters. Her voice is magnificent; her compositions beautiful. Consequently, I was very excited to receive last week her relatively new 5-disc release of The Visit, which is perhaps her most popular album. What made this 2021 issue so appealing is its inclusion of a multi-channel Blu-ray audio version of that 1991 CD.

Unfortunately, ouch!! Indeed, it was in multi-channel but the positioning of the instruments was nonsensical. Far worse, though, was the engineering of the music. I use an OPPO-203 as a Blu-ray transport (for audio), with the data transferred by HDMI to my Theta Digital Casablanca V. Whether a Blu-ray, a DTS audio, or a multi-channel CD, I am always delighted with what I hear. The tracks were nearly unlistenable because the production engineers must have boosted from 2KHz up between 6db and 12db. The result was hyper-exaggerated treble. Her beautiful voice no longer sounded luscious; the music had a hard-edge to it. I actually stopped listening halfway through the disc.

Just to be sure a problem hadn’t developed with my system, I played the original CD of The Visit, using first the OPPO as the transport (again via HDMI) and then my Wadia 8 CD-only transport (connected via digital AES/EBU cable ) – always decoded by the Casablanca V. In every instance, Ms. McKinnett’s magnificent voice and music reappeared as beautiful as ever.

As can be imagined, this was a tremendous disappointment, but it underscores how important are the production elements of a recorded performance. I certainly would not recommend to anyone this 2021 release for its multi-channel disc. That said, this album does also provide a lot of fascinating information about Loreena McKinnett, the songs on the album, etc.

 

[par4ken]

Sad to hear that, but it happens sometimes that the MCH mix is disappointing. You can always play the stereo through a surround decoder though. You could also rip the MCH disc to the hard drive and re-equalise it, you could even swap tracks around if it improves the overall mix for you. I know a lot of work, but just a suggestion.

It's always a crap shoot with the CD sound quality as well, sometimes they sound fine but other times they are brick wall limited and sound terrible!

 

[AVphile]

Sad to hear that, but it happens sometimes that the MCH mix is disappointing. You can always play the stereo through a surround decoder though. You could also rip the MCH disc to the hard drive and re-equalise it, you could even swap tracks around if it improves the overall mix for you. I know a lot of work, but just a suggestion.

It's always a crap shoot with the CD sound quality as well, sometimes they sound fine but other times they are brick wall limited and sound terrible!

Yes, fortunately the Casablanca V allows me to upmix both in Dolby Atmos and DTS HD-Master Audio, and I utlize its functionality often. The multichannel The Visit, however, is a lost cause I am afraid.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

This is a multichannel/Atmos remix from 30-year-old session and/or master tracks. Those were not made with any anticipation of this use and the remix is entirely at the mercy of its producers. It can be done well but the process is fraught with misuse. Its failure, in your ears, has nothing to do with multichannel or any technology but with the choices made by the producers. Nothing new.

 

[Old Quad Guy]

I’m not familiar with the artist or recording/and or release. No comment.

But, a lot of times when I’ve heard that a new surround mix of an old recording was coming out, in my mind, before even hearing the recording, I could imagine the mix and how it would sound. Many times my expectations were exceeded, sometimes a disappointment. But, still glad to have the recording, especially if there’s a Hi-Rez Stereo or Mono option included.

The ultimate on some of these box sets might be if they included the multi-tracks, so I could do my own mix. But then again, you might also find that it’s a lot harder than it seems. I find life much happier if I accept a recording for what it is, rather than what it might not be.

And there’s reviews now before you buy. We should not take lightly that we’re living in a time of an embarrassment of riches of Surround sound releases. Something that seemed impossible, not the long ago.

 

[edisonbaggins]

The Visit in Atmos sounds fantastic on my system and on my mom's. So much so that she bought her own copy, to listen to it more often!

 

[jsulzinger]

Loreena McKinnett is one of my all-time favorite singer/songwriters. Her voice is magnificent; her compositions beautiful. Consequently, I was very excited to receive last week her relatively new 5-disc release of The Visit, which is perhaps her most popular album. What made this 2021 issue so appealing is its inclusion of a multi-channel Blu-ray audio version of that 1991 CD.

Unfortunately, ouch!! Indeed, it was in multi-channel but the positioning of the instruments was nonsensical. Far worse, though, was the engineering of the music. I use an OPPO-203 as a Blu-ray transport (for audio), with the data transferred by HDMI to my Theta Digital Casablanca V. Whether a Blu-ray, a DTS audio, or a multi-channel CD, I am always delighted with what I hear. The tracks were nearly unlistenable because the production engineers must have boosted from 2KHz up between 6db and 12db. The result was hyper-exaggerated treble. Her beautiful voice no longer sounded luscious; the music had a hard-edge to it. I actually stopped listening halfway through the disc.

Just to be sure a problem hadn’t developed with my system, I played the original CD of The Visit, using first the OPPO as the transport (again via HDMI) and then my Wadia 8 CD-only transport (connected via digital AES/EBU cable ) – always decoded by the Casablanca V. In every instance, Ms. McKinnett’s magnificent voice and music reappeared as beautiful as ever.

As can be imagined, this was a tremendous disappointment, but it underscores how important are the production elements of a recorded performance. I certainly would not recommend to anyone this 2021 release for its multi-channel disc. That said, this album does also provide a lot of fascinating information about Loreena McKinnett, the songs on the album, etc.

How does the stereo version on the blu-ray sound to you?

 

[ar surround]

Loreena McKinnett is one of my all-time favorite singer/songwriters. Her voice is magnificent; her compositions beautiful. Consequently, I was very excited to receive last week her relatively new 5-disc release of The Visit, which is perhaps her most popular album. What made this 2021 issue so appealing is its inclusion of a multi-channel Blu-ray audio version of that 1991 CD.

Unfortunately, ouch!! Indeed, it was in multi-channel but the positioning of the instruments was nonsensical. Far worse, though, was the engineering of the music. I use an OPPO-203 as a Blu-ray transport (for audio), with the data transferred by HDMI to my Theta Digital Casablanca V. Whether a Blu-ray, a DTS audio, or a multi-channel CD, I am always delighted with what I hear. The tracks were nearly unlistenable because the production engineers must have boosted from 2KHz up between 6db and 12db. The result was hyper-exaggerated treble. Her beautiful voice no longer sounded luscious; the music had a hard-edge to it. I actually stopped listening halfway through the disc.

Just to be sure a problem hadn’t developed with my system, I played the original CD of The Visit, using first the OPPO as the transport (again via HDMI) and then my Wadia 8 CD-only transport (connected via digital AES/EBU cable ) – always decoded by the Casablanca V. In every instance, Ms. McKinnett’s magnificent voice and music reappeared as beautiful as ever.

As can be imagined, this was a tremendous disappointment, but it underscores how important are the production elements of a recorded performance. I certainly would not recommend to anyone this 2021 release for its multi-channel disc. That said, this album does also provide a lot of fascinating information about Loreena McKinnett, the songs on the album, etc.

Sorry to hear this AVphile. If I've said it once, I've said it a million times....Sound quality trumps mix every time.

 

[perzon57]

Sorry to hear this AVphile. If I've said it once, I've said it a million times....Sound quality trumps mix every time.

I'll say to me the Atmos mix on the The Visit BD is one of last years best.

 

[Doug G.]

The rule should really be, "Multi-channel done right is always better".

It's not the fault of the format that some of it is substandard.

Doug

 

[ar surround]

I'll say to me the Atmos mix on the The Visit BD is one of last years best.

What do you think about the sound quality?

 

[perzon57]

What do you think about the sound quality?

I love the music and the mix, to me the sound quality is good enough to not bother me. In fact I had not thought about it as a problem before you asked, and to me it isn't.

 

[edisonbaggins]

Given the poll thread for this release, reviews I've seen and heard elsewhere, plus my own listening, I'm treating the OP as an outlier...

 

[ar surround]

Sorry to hear this AVphile. If I've said it once, I've said it a million times....Sound quality trumps mix every time.

I love the music and the mix, to me the sound quality is good enough to not bother me. In fact I had not thought about it as a problem before you asked, and to me it isn't.

Given the poll thread for this release, reviews I've seen and heard elsewhere, plus my own listening, I'm treating the OP as an outlier...

The reason I'm asking is because I was unaware of this artist prior to reading this thread, but I really liked what I heard on YouTube. It's on back-order at Import CDs and pricier elsewhere.

 

[jimfisheye]

Sometimes surround remixes are done as a novelty with absolutely no respect for the original mix and no ambitions beyond surround sound as pure novelty. Sometimes accomplished mixes are damaged beyond listenability with destructive "volume war mastering" practices. Happens too often in stereo too.

A surround or HD release SHOULD be a calling card for above average handling and presentation, but it isn't always. For all the happiness and light that 24 bit digital delivery is for discrete surround music, this destruction happens far too often! More often in the digital age than it ever did back in the analog days (when everything was much harder to do).

10 - 20db of brick wall limiting and make up boost and then up to 20db of treble boost (2k and up) is unfortunately common.

Sorry to hear someone ruined one of your favorites!
Been there...

 

[edisonbaggins]

It's on back-order at Import CDs and pricier elsewhere.

Got the 2nd copy for my mom just as prices were starting to rise. An Amazon warehouse deal. Right around retail price.

 

[AVphile]

This is a multichannel/Atmos remix from 30-year-old session and/or master tracks. Those were not made with any anticipation of this use and the remix is entirely at the mercy of its producers. It can be done well but the process is fraught with misuse. Its failure, in your ears, has nothing to do with multichannel or any technology but with the choices made by the producers. Nothing new.

Kal, you are right, but it is disheartening to use an opportunity to create something really fabulous and then have these "producers" utterly vandalize the quality inherent to the master tracks. This is a rhetorical question, but didn't anyone involved with this new production actually listen to what they had done before releasing it? <sigh>

 

[AVphile]

How does the stereo version on the blu-ray sound to you?

Great question! I'll try to listen to it today and report back.

 

[Ranasakawa]

The John Lennon surround mixes are an example of a poor 5.1 mix in my opinion plus Sgt Pepper 5.1 mix was a disappointment to me too

 

[Mr. Afternoon]

For advertising and collaborating with Dolby for Atmos those The Weeknd mixes are kind of lacking. Sad.