New surround receivers & 2 channel inputs

[Lance7489]

When it comes to late model surround receivers (like the Marantz SR6015 AVR) I'm somewhat of a novice as to what they can & can't do. What do newer AVR's do with the analog stereo inputs ? Do they play them just in the front 2 main channels or do you have the option of using onboard "matrix circuitry" that converts the stereo signal to a surround effect, similar to what the Involve "surround master" does ? I'm a longtime 70's quad guy thinking of incorporating some newer equipment, but don't know a whole lot about it.

 

[ProgRules]

Analog stereo inputs can be converted by an AVR into digital signals and then processed by whatever DSP modes you want. Though if you have digital outputs it's often best to use those, since you'd avoid an extra DAC/ADC conversion. Though if you have a high quality DAC in your component, you may want to anyway. Though most with a high quality DAC would avoid any processing anyway and forego DSP.

 

[ar surround]

Lance, that particular Marantz unit (SR6015) also has 7.1 analog inputs which is good for legacy equipment such as DVD players with older versions of HDMI that can't ouput SACD or DVD-A.

This is what I've been doing: I connected the HDMI output of my Oppo 205 (or you can use an earlier Oppo) to a Marantz HDMI input and I use DSP processing on that signal chain. I also connected the stereo analog outputs of my Oppo to a Surround Master which is connected to the 7.1 analog inputs on my Marantz AVR. I can select "pure" mode on the Marantz 7.1 inputs so that there is no further A/D conversion done in the AVR.

I just recently set up a Marantz SR7013 in the last week or so and I am very pleased with it. At first, I thought these newfangled AVRs seemed harrowing, but I found the Denon/Marantz Setup Assistant makes things rather easy. There are also numerous Youtube videos that cover these AVRs.

When it comes to late model surround receivers (like the Marantz SR6015 AVR) I'm somewhat of a novice as to what they can & can't do. What do newer AVR's do with the analog stereo inputs ? Do they play them just in the front 2 main channels or do you have the option of using onboard "matrix circuitry" that converts the stereo signal to a surround effect, similar to what the Involve "surround master" does ? I'm a longtime 70's quad guy thinking of incorporating some newer equipment, but don't know a whole lot about it.

 

[ar surround]

BTW, I just checked upmixing via the 2 channel analog inputs on the Marantz SR7013. Everything worked fine: Auro 3D, Auro 2D, Dolby Surround and DTX Neural-X...How these things upmix is material dependent of course.

 

[Lance7489]

Lance, that particular Marantz unit (SR6015) also has 7.1 analog inputs which is good for legacy equipment such as DVD players with older versions of HDMI that can't ouput SACD or DVD-A.

This is what I've been doing: I connected the HDMI output of my Oppo 205 (or you can use an earlier Oppo) to a Marantz HDMI input and I use DSP processing on that signal chain. I also connected the stereo analog outputs of my Oppo to a Surround Master which is connected to the 7.1 analog inputs on my Marantz AVR. I can select "pure" mode on the Marantz 7.1 inputs so that there is no further A/D conversion done in the AVR.

I just recently set up a Marantz SR7013 in the last week or so and I am very pleased with it. At first, I thought these newfangled AVRs seemed harrowing, but I found the Denon/Marantz Setup Assistant makes things rather easy. There are also numerous Youtube videos that cover these AVRs.

Can you you hook up a "universal" blu ray player that doesn't have analog outs BUT can play multichannel SACD's & DVD-audio discs. Will these play through the HDMI inputs in either 4.0 or 5.1 on the Marantz ? Also, I'm primarily using my surround system for music, not so much for movies, so I'm trying to get a feel for how 2 channel sources will sound through different processors within the Marantz. Will these processors do something similar to what the "surround master" does (actually separate instruments & vocals) or will it just give the music a concert hall effect ?

 

[ar surround]

I am playing multichannel DSF (ripped from SACD) and FLAC (ripped from DVD-A) files via HDMI into a Marantz SR7013 as I write this. I am using an Oppo 205. (I do not know if the Marantz will play 4.0 via HDMI from other players.)

I use Auro 3D to process 2 channel into 10.1. I also use it to add height to multichannel music. Results are not the same as using the Surround Master. Auro 3D is more of a concert Hall effect, but VERY impressive if set up properly.

Also, if you get a Marantz or Denon which use Audyssey room correction, spend another $20 on the MultEQ App. Results will be night and day compared to just using the program in the receiver. I learned this the hard way.

Can you you hook up a "universal" blu ray player that doesn't have analog outs BUT can play multichannel SACD's & DVD-audio discs. Will these play through the HDMI inputs in either 4.0 or 5.1 on the Marantz ? Also, I'm primarily using my surround system for music, not so much for movies, so I'm trying to get a feel for how 2 channel sources will sound through different processors within the Marantz. Will these processors do something similar to what the "surround master" does (actually separate instruments & vocals) or will it just give the music a concert hall effect ?

 

[Lance7489]

I am playing multichannel DSF (ripped from SACD) and FLAC (ripped from DVD-A) files via HDMI into a Marantz SR7013 as I write this. I am using an Oppo 205. (I do not know if the Marantz will play 4.0 via HDMI from other players.)

I use Auro 3D to process 2 channel into 10.1. I also use it to add height to multichannel music. Results are not the same as using the Surround Master. Auro 3D is more of a concert Hall effect, but VERY impressive if set up properly.

Also, if you get a Marantz or Denon which use Audyssey room correction, spend another $20 on the MultEQ App. Results will be night and day compared to just using the program in the receiver. I learned this the hard way.

Right now I'm using a parasound P7 preamp along with a Parasound 52A+ 5 channel power amp. I'm using a Oppo blu ray player & a Denon dvd/sacd changer, both with analog outputs. I running all my stereo sources (TV, CD, Phono) through the surround master. It sounds great, but I was thinking of trying a DVR with at least 1 set of analog inputs to neaten things up a bit (too many components .. drives my wife CRAZY), but from what your saying, it doesn't sound like the processing (of 2 channel sources) in the Marantz will give me the sound I want, so I'll stick with the surround master. I'm an old quad guy from the 70's & want my surround to have different instruments & vocals coming out of all 5 channels, not just the fronts ....... The problem I've found with the P7 is there's no EQ adjustment for the rear channels. The bass & treble controls work only in the fronts & center channels, so I have to run everything "flat".



Both of my disc players (Oppo, Denon) have HDMI outs as well as the analog, but from what your saying, the older HDMI outs may not work with the newer DVR's, correct

 

[ar surround]

Right now I'm using a parasound P7 preamp along with a Parasound 52A+ 5 channel power amp. I'm using a Oppo blu ray player & a Denon dvd/sacd changer, both with analog outputs. I running all my stereo sources (TV, CD, Phono) through the surround master. It sounds great, but I was thinking of trying a DVR with at least 1 set of analog inputs to neaten things up a bit (too many components .. drives my wife CRAZY), but from what your saying, it doesn't sound like the processing (of 2 channel sources) in the Marantz will give me the sound I want, so I'll stick with the surround master. I'm an old quad guy from the 70's & want my surround to have different instruments & vocals coming out of all 5 channels, not just the fronts ....... The problem I've found with the P7 is there's no EQ adjustment for the rear channels. The bass & treble controls work only in the fronts & center channels, so I have to run everything "flat".

Both of my disc players (Oppo, Denon) have HDMI outs as well as the analog, but from what your saying, the older HDMI outs may not work with the newer DVR's, correct

I have similar equipment to yours:
- Parasound P7
- Parasound A21 (fronts)
- Parasound A52+ (center, surrounds, surround rears)
- Parasound Zamp v3 (Auro 3D Voice of God)
- Oppo 205
- Surround Master
- Marantz SR7013 (front and rear heights)
- Wife (who I’ve driven CRAZY)

Because of those dual multichannel inputs on the P7, I’ve been able to do all sorts of wild stuff. Like the other day I was processing stereo to Neo6 in the Oppo, sending that signal to the P7, and then adding Auro 3D height channels via the Marantz.

If you want to add ceiling speakers and an AVR, I can walk you through it because I’ve gone (going) through all the hell of doing so.

 

[ar surround]

@Lance7489 as I write this, I’m playing various 2-channel songs and flipping back and forth between Auro 3D and the Surround Master. I can say that there are songs that sound more satisfying in Auro 3D than the Surround Master and vice versa. There are also songs that sound equally pleasing using both codecs, albeit different.

My next experiment will be to feed the output of the SM to the P7 and use the Marantz to generate Auro 3D height channels.

 

[Lance7489]

I have similar equipment to yours:
- Parasound P7
- Parasound A21 (fronts)
- Parasound A52+ (center, surrounds, surround rears)
- Parasound Zamp v3 (Auro 3D Voice of God)
- Oppo 205
- Surround Master
- Marantz SR7013 (front and rear heights)
- Wife (who I’ve driven CRAZY)

Because of those dual multichannel inputs on the P7, I’ve been able to do all sorts of wild stuff. Like the other day I was processing stereo to Neo6 in the Oppo, sending that signal to the P7, and then adding Auro 3D height channels via the Marantz.

If you want to add ceiling speakers and an AVR, I can walk you through it because I’ve gone (going) through all the hell of doing so.

Our living room is small, so I'm pretty much limited to 5.1 & like I said, most of the surround music I listen too is 4.0 or 5.1. Since you have both, how is the sound quality of the parasound (preamp & amp) vs that of the marantz dvr by itself ? If I got the Marantz, I may keep the A52+ BUT I would eliminate the P7. Like I mentioned, the P7 has no eq for the rear channels & the Marantz has a separate, multiband eq for each channel. I know a lot of people like to listen to their music "flat", but my 63 year old ears need eq, especially in the higher frequencies.

 

[ar surround]

Our living room is small, so I'm pretty much limited to 5.1 & like I said, most of the surround music I listen too is 4.0 or 5.1. Since you have both, how is the sound quality of the parasound (preamp & amp) vs that of the marantz dvr by itself ? If I got the Marantz, I may keep the A52+ BUT I would eliminate the P7. Like I mentioned, the P7 has no eq for the rear channels & the Marantz has a separate, multiband eq for each channel. I know a lot of people like to listen to their music "flat", but my 63 year old ears need eq, especially in the higher frequencies.

I only use the power amps in the Marantz AVR to power the four height speakers. Since these speakers are relatively small, the 250 watts total of the Marantz sound just fine. Under no circumstances would I ditch the big Parasound amps given the size and low efficiency of my other speakers.

The tone controls (bass and treble) of the Marantz seem very effective. And yes, you can EQ each channel with the multi band equalizer if needed.

One thing I do not like about the Marantz AVR is that the tone controls don’t seem to be able to be engaged on the 7.1 analog inputs.

 

[Lance7489]

I only use the power amps in the Marantz AVR to power the four height speakers. Since these speakers are relatively small, the 250 watts total of the Marantz sound just fine. Under no circumstances would I ditch the big Parasound amps given the size and low efficiency of my other speakers.

The tone controls (bass and treble) of the Marantz seem very effective. And yes, you can EQ each channel with the multi band equalizer if needed.

One thing I do not like about the Marantz AVR is that the tone controls don’t seem to be able to be engaged on the 7.1 analog inputs.

You mean if you use the analog inputs there's no tone controls ?? That doesn't make sense but you're sure about that ? That wouldn't do for me. I'd use the 7.1 inputs quite a bit so that would keep me in the same boat I'm already in with the P7.

 

[ar surround]

You mean if you use the analog inputs there's no tone controls ?? That doesn't make sense but you're sure about that ? That wouldn't do for me. I'd use the 7.1 inputs quite a bit so that would keep me in the same boat I'm already in with the P7.

[EDIT: According to the Marantz SR7013 web manual, tone controls cannot be engaged for the 7.1 analog inputs. How ridiculous is that? It is the last note at the bottom in the fine print.]

https://manuals.marantz.com/SR7013/EU/EN/SEHFSYrsdmuabm.php

 

[Lance7489]

[EDIT: According to the Marantz SR7013 web manual, tone controls cannot be engaged for the 7.1 analog inputs. How ridiculous is that? It is the last note at the bottom in the fine print.]

https://manuals.marantz.com/SR7013/EU/EN/SEHFSYrsdmuabm.php

Very ridiculous !!!!

 

[ddahl44]

Checking the marketplace (ebay, Amazon, Craigslist) for newish A/V receivers with 6 channel analog input. Wow! The prices! Any input on reliability of your units would be appreciated. Found a couple used rigs on Craigslist but to get anything new in the box it looks like $1199 for a Marantz.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

[EDIT: According to the Marantz SR7013 web manual, tone controls cannot be engaged for the 7.1 analog inputs. How ridiculous is that? It is the last note at the bottom in the fine print.]

Not ridiculous. It is just implemented for other users who want to integrate a fully processed multichannel source into their systems and who do not wish to have the Marantz impose redundant A/D and D/A processing on it. To us, such a pure analog pass-through is preferred.

 

[ar surround]

Not ridiculous. It is just implemented for other users who want to integrate a fully processed multichannel source into their systems and who do not wish to have the Marantz impose redundant A/D and D/A processing on it. To us, such a pure analog pass-through is preferred.

So those analog inputs are geared more to accommodate a legacy A/V processor rather than a legacy disc player with only analog outputs. Well, that makes sense, but I still wish those inputs had a bypass mode for those who want pure pass-through rather than eliminating the ability to utilize tone controls altogether.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

So those analog inputs are geared more to accommodate a legacy A/V processor rather than a legacy disc player with only analog outputs

Nope. I use it to handle the output from a high-resolution multichannel streamer/server with its own DSP and room correction.

Well, that makes sense, but I still wish those inputs had a bypass mode for those who want pure pass-through rather than eliminating the ability to utilize tone controls altogether.

Well, the real reason, I think, was just to save money on the inclusion of 8 channels of A/D conversion.

 

[ar surround]

One thing I do not like about the Marantz AVR is that the tone controls don’t seem to be able to be engaged on the 7.1 analog inputs.

You mean if you use the analog inputs there's no tone controls ?? That doesn't make sense but you're sure about that ? That wouldn't do for me. I'd use the 7.1 inputs quite a bit so that would keep me in the same boat I'm already in with the P7.

Hey @Lance7489 , I found a workaround for this situation where the tone controls do not work with the Marantz 7.1 inputs. You can only do the following because you have a Parasound P7*. It took me two days to figure this out because the Marantz AVR is non-intuitive in some areas. I won't go through all the things that didn't work and only present what worked. (For those unfamiliar with the P7, the tone controls only work on the front channels and that can often be problematic.)

- Oppo 205 HDMI output connected to the Marantz AVR via HDMI
- Marantz AVR multichannel analog outputs connected to first set of P7 analog inputs
- Zone2 preamp analog outputs from Marantz AVR connected to input of Surround Master (or other outboard decoder)
- Surround Master multichannel analog outputs connected to second set of P7 analog inputs

- Set the ouput mode of Marantz AVR to STEREO
- With the Marantz remote, click the Z2 (Zone2) button and then the red power button to turn on Zone2
- On the Marantz remote, click Z2 so that the volume control on the remote now operates the volume seen by the Surround Master's inputs

Now to operate the Zone2 tone controls is where it gets funky:
- In order to operate the Zone2 tone controls, you must click MAIN on the Marantz AVR remote
- Then you go into SETUP
- From the SETUP submenu, scroll down to GENERAL
- Then select ZONE2 / ZONE3 SETUP
- And within the ZONE2 SETUP suite, there are bass and treble controls that control Zone2 and Zone3

So yes, the tone controls for Zone2 are accessed when you are in the MAIN zone menu...and they are nowhere in the same location as the tone controls that affect the MAIN zone. The MAIN zone tone controls are in the OPTIONS menu which is invoked by a different button than the SETUP menu. Yet the volume control for ZONE2 is accessed from the Zone2 menu. Totally unituitive, but it works.

*(I guess that a Zektor Switch or other switching device would work in lieu of a Parasound P7, but Lance and I both have the P7 and that was the genesis of the question. I don't know if the Denon units have the same funky menus as the Marantz AVRs, but these notes may apply to them as well.)

(@chucky3042 and @Overture , you might find the above information helpful for those who have a Marantz Processor AVR with outboard amps, would like to incorporate a Surround Master into their system, and be able to apply equalization ahead of the unit.)