non-SQ CBS Matrix Encoded item

Help Support QuadraphonicQuad:

kfbkfb

500 Club - QQ All-Star
QQ Supporter
Since 2002/2003
Joined
Feb 20, 2003
Messages
566
Location
Midwest USA
^^^
This special edition is presented in state of the art surround sound...


I bought this VHS back in 1987, I haven't been able to find out what matrix CBS Fox used (maybe Shure Stereosurround)?


aside:
It was fun to (finally) hear Miami Vice in Stereo (WDAF-TV converted their audio to Stereo in 1986, I got a VHS VCR w/MTS in 1987-04). In the fall of 2014, I asked COZI-TV to add Miami Vice, they did in 2015-03 and I got to hear all the episodes in Stereo.

Although I'd read about TV FM Stereo simulcasts where the FM was matrix encoded quad (during the Quad era), I didn't think about using Quad/Surround Sound for TV shows after Stereo audio for TV was approved in 1984.


Kirk Bayne
 
Last edited:

kfbkfb

500 Club - QQ All-Star
QQ Supporter
Since 2002/2003
Joined
Feb 20, 2003
Messages
566
Location
Midwest USA
Just copied the VHS HiFi soundtrack to a DVD (for personal use), the video is Macrovision encoded so...

Played the stereo DVD thru my DPL (original) decoder, some songs early in the soundtrack have some content that appears in the surround channel, but later songs are mostly from the L and R speakers with only some ambience (unusual for studio produced popular music) in the surround channel.

Some casual searching w/Google hasn't revealed the Surround Encoding Matrix used for this (yet).


Kirk Bayne
 
Last edited:

kfbkfb

500 Club - QQ All-Star
QQ Supporter
Since 2002/2003
Joined
Feb 20, 2003
Messages
566
Location
Midwest USA
In 1987, VHS (also Betamax and LaserDisc) only had stereo sound, so it would have to be some sort of Surround Sound Matrix (encoding).

Checked the obvious, the end credits (no mention of a specific Matrix - QS/SQ/H/DS etc., I'm a little surprised that CBS didn't try to get CBS Fox to use SQ):

Surround Sound Mix
Rick Chace Productions




I'm getting the idea that the "Surround Sound Mix" didn't use an encoder, the Stereo was mixed so that it decoded to Surround Sound [with some unknown Matrix decoder(s)]. Aside from older QS/SQ decoders, the only ones consumers had in 1987 were Dolby Surround and Shure Stereosurround decoders.


Kirk Bayne
 
Last edited:

doity

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2014
Messages
269
Forgot that you mentioned it was VHS. Wow, you must be first person playing that title on VHS in quite awhile. Maybe just try a standard decoder for home video like a Fosgate Audionics or similar of that vintage. There were loads of them. I am sure that you will get something eventually.

Every time I think of Don Jonson I think of the David Cassidy autobiography where he relates how he sees Don at a party during his Miami Vice fame and he shuts Keith, I mean David, totally out when he says hi. David felt so humiliated that he left. They were good friend when both were struggling actors. Poor dude.
 

kfbkfb

500 Club - QQ All-Star
QQ Supporter
Since 2002/2003
Joined
Feb 20, 2003
Messages
566
Location
Midwest USA


This youtube video audio sounds like the VHS version thru my DS decoder (i. e. some surround effect), if anyone has some spare time, I'd be interested to know how this youtube video audio sounds thru a Surround Master decoder, for example.


Kirk Bayne
 

winopener

2K Club - QQ Super Nova
Since 2002/2003
Joined
Mar 2, 2002
Messages
3,934
Just a random thought... sounds weird to me to do a stereo-mix of an album for a new artist and then re-work it again for the video release. May be that the music-only media (lp, singles, 12", cd...) are in fact encoded the same way, if a encoding is present?
 

kfbkfb

500 Club - QQ All-Star
QQ Supporter
Since 2002/2003
Joined
Feb 20, 2003
Messages
566
Location
Midwest USA
I wondered about that too, the audio only Heartbeat album makes no mention of any kind of Surround Sound.
The audio only album was released in 1986, the video album in 1987, so there was time to create a video only Surround Sound mix (the VHS box says):

RUNNING TIME: 65 MINUTES
DIGITAL AUDIO
SURROUND SOUND

(Surround Sound Mix is only mentioned again in the end credits)


Kirk Bayne
 

par4ken

1K Club - QQ Shooting Star
Joined
May 28, 2011
Messages
1,107
Location
NW Ontario
^^^
This special edition is presented in state of the art surround sound...


I bought this VHS back in 1987, I haven't been able to find out what matrix CBS Fox used (maybe Shure Stereo Surround)?


aside:
It was fun to (finally) hear Miami Vice in Stereo (WDAF-TV converted their audio to Stereo in 1986, I got a VHS VCR w/MTS in 1987-04). In the fall of 2014, I asked COZI-TV to add Miami Vice, they did in 2015-03 and I got to hear all the episodes in Stereo.

Although I'd read about TV FM Stereo simulcasts where the FM was matrix encoded quad (during the Quad era), I didn't think about using Quad/Surround Sound for TV shows after Stereo audio for TV was approved in 1984.


Kirk Bayne
Most likely Dolby Surround, although credit should be given somewhere. It cold also be Ultra Stereo, which apparently did not require licensing fees, but again you would think that credit would be given.
 

kfbkfb

500 Club - QQ All-Star
QQ Supporter
Since 2002/2003
Joined
Feb 20, 2003
Messages
566
Location
Midwest USA
If Rick Chace Productions had a Stereo mixing system that allowed a sound to be placed at one phase angle in L and a different phase angle in R, then they had a de facto Matrix Encoder.

Perhaps they listened to the Stereo mix thru both a SQ and QS (non-logic) decoder to verify the Surround Sound mix.

It's odd that they didn't have a statement on the VHS box about the audio providing Surround Sound thru older Quad equipment and newer Surround Sound equipment.


Kirk Bayne
 

doity

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2014
Messages
269
I just found an article from about the same time period that claimed that CBS was using a surround sound based on SQ and mentioned the Tate decoder. Maybe try something along those lines. I know that my Audionics has a mode named “70 mm” that seems to be a matrix mode of some sort for stereo signals in video. Maybe something like that would work? Well i’ve learned one thing from this thread and that Don Johnson made a hour long music video.
 

kfbkfb

500 Club - QQ All-Star
QQ Supporter
Since 2002/2003
Joined
Feb 20, 2003
Messages
566
Location
Midwest USA
I bought this VHS for the novelty of getting a new Surround Sound (music, not movie) recording in 1987.

IIRC, Shure was thinking that Music Videos (long form and single) could be a back door to reintroduce Surround Sound (hopefully, via their Stereosurround system).

I have an very old Pioneer QX-747 (from pawn shop) w/both QS and SQ decoders, I may risk switching it on to try this soundtrack thru both QS and SQ.

I plan to check my monthly mags (Video Review and Video) for 1987 to see if there's more info about this release.


Kirk Bayne
 

kfbkfb

500 Club - QQ All-Star
QQ Supporter
Since 2002/2003
Joined
Feb 20, 2003
Messages
566
Location
Midwest USA
^^^
BTW, Chace Surround is intended to be decoder compatible with Dolby Surround.


Perhaps, the mystery is solved, different enough to not be a Dolby Labs IP problem, but close enough to be compatible (I'll have to check The Perfect Vision mag for more about Rick Chace Productions).


Kirk Bayne
 

par4ken

1K Club - QQ Shooting Star
Joined
May 28, 2011
Messages
1,107
Location
NW Ontario
Quote
"Nineteen-year-old Chace Productions in Burbank was a very early adopter of 5.1 surround thanks to the forward-thinking heritage of the company, which specializes in restoring, remastering and preserving cinematic soundtracks. The late Rick Chace invented the Chace Surround Stereo processor in the mid 1980s. This enabled engineers to create truly directional surround stereo from mono sources."
 

kfbkfb

500 Club - QQ All-Star
QQ Supporter
Since 2002/2003
Joined
Feb 20, 2003
Messages
566
Location
Midwest USA
I did find an interview with Rick Chace in The Perfect Vision mag Fall 1988 P.56, it didn't mention anything about creating a Surround Sound mix for (new) Stereo Music Videos.

I'll stick with my original supposition - the Stereo mix was monitored thru matrix decoders, but a specific hardware encoder wasn't used.


Kirk Bayne
 

kfbkfb

500 Club - QQ All-Star
QQ Supporter
Since 2002/2003
Joined
Feb 20, 2003
Messages
566
Location
Midwest USA
Last edited:
Top