HiRez Poll Nyro, Laura - ELI AND THE 13TH CONFESSION [SACD]

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Rate the SACD of Laura Nyro - ELI AND THE 13TH CONFESSION

  • 7:

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 4:

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 3:

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 2:

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 1: Poor Fidelity, Poor Content, Poor Surround

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    45
If the drum kit was presented in mono within the front two channels or the back two, I'd be a lot more forgiving.
CBS actually advised mixers not to put anything in mono in the back channels, because the encoded position in the SQ matrix for 'rear center' was 180 degrees out-of-phase - so if you played the record in mono (which I guess some people still did in the early-70s?), whatever was centered in the rear speakers would completely cancel out! There are a handful of quad LPs that violate this rule - Art Garfunkel's Angel Clare is one and sure enough, the backing vocals in "I Shall Sing" do almost entirely disappear if you play it in mono.
But then again, if you're talking about this SQ matrix thing, perhaps this mix just wasn't made to be quad in my eyes if it has that limitation.
SQ matrix compatibility seems to have been the foremost concern for CBS, with the discrete 4-channel versions issued on 8-track cartridge as something of an afterthought. Their quad mixes definitely got more sophisticated as recording technology transitioned to 16 & 24-track - eventually they allowed stereo panning of elements like drums and piano across the front channels - but the rears were almost always treated as hard-panned mono corners, with no sounds shared between front and back.

I'm not defending this quad mix per se, just pointing out certain limitations of the time. As a result, you can't really compare these to modern 5.1 or Atmos mixing styles where such concerns no longer exist.
 
CBS actually advised mixers not to put anything in mono in the back channels, because the encoded position in the SQ matrix for 'rear center' was 180 degrees out-of-phase - so if you played the record in mono (which I guess some people still did in the early-70s?), whatever was centered in the rear speakers would completely cancel out! There are a handful of quad LPs that violate this rule - Art Garfunkel's Angel Clare is one and sure enough, the backing vocals in "I Shall Sing" do almost entirely disappear if you play it in mono.

SQ matrix compatibility seems to have been the foremost concern for CBS, with the discrete 4-channel versions issued on 8-track cartridge as something of an afterthought. Their quad mixes definitely got more sophisticated as recording technology transitioned to 16 & 24-track - eventually they allowed stereo panning of elements like drums and piano across the front channels - but the rears were almost always treated as hard-panned mono corners, with no sounds shared between front and back.

I'm not defending this quad mix per se, just pointing out certain limitations of the time. As a result, you can't really compare these to modern 5.1 or Atmos mixing styles where such concerns no longer exist.
I always appreciate being reminded of this sort of thing. I keep waiting for someone to gather it up into a compelling historical narrative for surround nerds. (Calling @steelydave. . . .)
 
I think you also need to think about this album, and the quad mix in the context of the time it was released, which in this case was March, 1968. Now we don't know exactly when this album was mixed for quad exactly, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was in the following year, which is when CBS started doing their first quad mixes.

The reason I say the time and context are important is because the stereo mixes of this era were also extremely directional (and at times nonsensical) because the technology was new, and people wanted material that showed off the directional possibilities it afforded. Take the Beatles for example, probably inarguably the most popular and best-selling act of the 1960s - would the extreme stereo mixes of Revolver and Rubber Soul sound any different from Eli and the 13th Confession's quad mix if they were extrapolated into 3D?

It's also worth noting that Columbia never put this album in quad when they finally started releasing quad LPs starting in February 1972 - the only reason its existence was known was because it was one of the Mike Robin reel collection that he offered for sale to collectors in the late '70s. Columbia did release several of those pre-1972 quad mixes as part of their first batch of SQ LPs in February '72 including Bloomfield/Kooper/Stills Super Session, Sly & The Family Stone's Greatest Hits, Santana's Abraxas and third album, Simon and Garfunkel's Bridge over Troubled Water and others, which leads me to believe that they felt like the Laura Nyro mix maybe wasn't up to snuff given the innovations in mixing in the three-plus years between 1968 and early 1972.

Where does that leave this album? Well, maybe it's not the ideal mixing philosophy for a somewhat sparse album, but it's also a fascinating living relic of an incredibly exciting time in surround history. Imagine early 1968, a year before Woodstock and the moon landing, six months before the Beatles White Album is out, when lots of people are just experiencing stereo playback for the first time, and you're in a studio mixing an album for twice as many speakers. There's barely a blueprint for effective stereo mixing at this point, and with quad you're in absolutely virgin territory - there's no playbook for this. Mixing is obviously a technical job, but there's also a distinct artistic element, and like so many endeavours (both technical and artistic) you don't know what works - or what doesn't - until you try it. I think this mix has some of both - is having drums and/or bass guitar isolated in a single rear speaker an ideal mixing arrangement? Probably not. But does it illustrate that discrete four-channel mixing can create moments of absolute musical excitement? For me, absolutely. I'm reminded of the quote from Sir Isaac Newton "if I have seen further [than others], it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." Early mixes like this one, flaws and all, are the basis for all the great work that came out of CBS (and elsewhere) in the ensuing years, and I'm extremely grateful that we're able to listen to and debate the merits of the actual recording and not just wonder what it might've sounded like based on a news item in an old trade magazine or a quote from an old engineer on a website.
 
Dave, I seem to recall other Laura Nyro albums were likewise released in QUAD but just checked Mark Anderson's QUADRAPHONIC POPULAR DISCOGRAPHY and none were listed, not even Eli and the 13th Confession!
 
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Yeah, none of them were released - the album Gonna Take a Miracle (which is also notable for featuring Labelle on backing vocals) also showed as coming soon on some early Columbia quad dust jackets. It's entirely likely this one was completed as well given the album came out in November 1971 and Columbia started releasing quad just a few months later, so who knows why it never did.

I've given Mike a full accounting of all the CBS quads (released and unreleased) so he's well aware of what might be out there. As with any release there are always lots of hoops to jump through, starting of course with the existence of master tapes, which isn't always a given. If something like these albums were available I don't think he'd turn down the opportunity to do them!
 
It probably has to do with a combination of the multitrack being limited to begin with - the drum kit was likely committed to a single channel on the 8-track master - and CBS issuing their quad mixes on SQ matrix-encoded vinyl, so a lot of the earlier ones (Sly & The Family Stone's Greatest Hits is another good example) were intentionally made very 'four-corner' to get the most out of early hardware decoders that only produced like 3 dB of front-to-back seperation.
None of Laura's albums were released on SQ LP's, but it's possible they mixed it for that possibility.
 
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