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Oasis - (What's The Story) Morning Glory? - SACD - Technical problems/fixes?

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MrSmithers

900 Club - QQ All-Star
Joined
Jan 24, 2018
Messages
954
Location
UK 🇬🇧
So I’ve been taking a look into this absolute belter of an album. This was the soundtrack to my youth and is one of my favourite albums (along with Definitely Maybe). But it always sounded weird in multichannel and I think I just put it down to being difficult to mix because of the way it was recorded. Whilst that does play some part I have come to the conclusion there is more to it…

The way the album seems to be laid out -

Fronts - Main Vocals/Lead Guitar/Drums
Centre - Low Vocal/discrete instrument
LFE - Bass
Rears - Low vocals/mirror fronts/discrete instrument


However on certain songs the mix changes and I think this could be more down to a channel assignment issue when it went to pressing rather then it actually being mixed that way? To be honest I’m no expert on this and it’s not my place to second guess a professional engineer. And I know from the article that it was a mess to start with.... But the fact that Wonderwall has the bass mixed incorrectly makes me think there was a cock up with the channels on some of the songs… To me from She’s Electric on it sounds correct…. Here's my thinking....

Hello
Centre Speaker - Backing Vocals echo (seems to remember/mentions the weather etc) sound weird/overwhelming? Could sound better in the rears?
Hello.jpg

Roll With It
Follows mixing pattern apart from the first set of backing vocals don't match the rest of the track. All of a sudden there are drums in the centre and they seem to be quite high.
Roll With It.jpg

Wonderwall
Main Vocal at the beginning is in centre channel. Bass is in the centre and a cello is in the LFE - should be the other way around.
Wonderwall.jpg

Don’t Look Back In Anger
Follows the mixing pattern - just slightly curious if the backing vocals at the end in the centre should have been put in Rear Left?
Don't Look Back In Anger.jpg

Hey Now
Not sure what’s happening here at all?! Centre channel seems to match the fronts exactly?
Hey Now.jpg

Swamp Song
Not mixed for surround.

Some Might Say
Follows the mixing pattern. I don’t remember it sounding that great though?
Some Might Say.jpg

Cast No Shadow
Follows the mixing pattern - strings in the rears just sound a bit overbearing/slightly different pitch to the stereo version? Especially around the 2 minute mark!
Cast No Shodow.jpg

She’s Electric
Follows the mixing pattern.
She's Electric.jpg

Morning glory
Follows the mixing pattern.
Morning Glory.jpg

Swamp Song
Not mixed for surround.

Champagne Supernova
Follows the mixing pattern.
Champagne Supernova.jpg
 

sjcorne

2K Club - QQ Super Nova
Joined
Jan 1, 2010
Messages
2,756
Location
Southern NY
Wonderwall
Main Vocal at the beginning is in centre channel. Bass is in the centre and a cello is in the LFE - should be the other way around.
Was just futzing with this track and had an interesting thought: what if that lead vocal was actually meant to start in the rears?

There's a great moment in the 5.1 mix of the song "White Russian" from Marillion's Clutching At Straws where the lead vocal comes entirely from the rear and switches back to front center. The concept seems weird on paper, but the actual execution was really cool.

Plus, as you say, almost all the elements that are mixed to the center channel (aside from low bass) would be better suited to the rears. It seems entirely plausible that during the mixing session, a bus meant for the rears was somehow misdirected to the center channel. You really can ruin everything with one wrong click in a DAW.

I just did my own crude "remix" of this track using Audacity to move selected elements from the center to the rears. It kinda works!
38562
 
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MrSmithers

900 Club - QQ All-Star
Joined
Jan 24, 2018
Messages
954
Location
UK 🇬🇧
Was just futzing with this track and had an interesting thought: what if that lead vocal was actually meant to start in the rears?

There's a great moment in the 5.1 mix of the song "White Russian" from Marillion's Clutching At Straws where the lead vocal comes entirely from the rear and switches back to front center. The concept seems weird on paper, but the actual execution was really cool.

Plus, as you say, almost all the elements that are mixed to the center channel (aside from low bass) would be better suited to the rears.

I just did my own crude "remix" of this track using Audacity to move selected elements from the center to the rears. It kinda works!
View attachment 38562
Ahh that is interesting! ⚡ I hadn't thought of that... I was thinking it should all be in the mains but it may explain why it doesn't match with the rest of the vocal in the centre... I shall give it a futz! Today is gonna be the day that it finally starts to sound alright... :)

I do have to say that even though this album is mastered loudly (on purpose) and the mix on the sacd is a bit suspect in parts - the musical content is really out of the park. They just don't make albums like this anymore, unfortunately...
 
Last edited:

Strilo

600 Club - QQ All-Star
Joined
Oct 15, 2018
Messages
614
Location
Portland OR
Am I the only one who thinks it's super weird that the screenshot above of Morning Glory the LFE channel is anemic compared to all the other ones?
 

LuvMyQuad

2K Club - QQ Super Nova
QQ Supporter
Joined
Aug 12, 2010
Messages
2,322
Location
Western NY
Am I the only one who thinks it's super weird that the screenshot above of Morning Glory the LFE channel is anemic compared to all the other ones?
Its not weird or uncommon at all, in fact many releases look like that.
 
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MrSmithers

900 Club - QQ All-Star
Joined
Jan 24, 2018
Messages
954
Location
UK 🇬🇧
Am I the only one who thinks it's super weird that the screenshot above of Morning Glory the LFE channel is anemic compared to all the other ones?
Yeah I'm not sure why it's so low on that tune? I think it just contains bass guitar and a kick drum as you'd expect... There's always the potential when converting DSD to PCM for it to mess with the levels, but equally could also be another cock up on the disc given some of the mixing inconsistencies... I pumped it up on the remix I think... :cool:
 

Strilo

600 Club - QQ All-Star
Joined
Oct 15, 2018
Messages
614
Location
Portland OR
Many releases have one track with a totally different LFE level than the other tracks on the same album?
 

PmikeK

Banned
Joined
Oct 11, 2019
Messages
139
Location
Northumberland
So I’ve been taking a look into this absolute belter of an album. This was the soundtrack to my youth and is one of my favourite albums (along with Definitely Maybe). But it always sounded weird in multichannel and I think I just put it down to being difficult to mix because of the way it was recorded. Whilst that does play some part I have come to the conclusion there is more to it…

The way the album seems to be laid out -

Fronts - Main Vocals/Lead Guitar/Drums
Centre - Low Vocal/discrete instrument
LFE - Bass
Rears - Low vocals/mirror fronts/discrete instrument


However on certain songs the mix changes and I think this could be more down to a channel assignment issue when it went to pressing rather then it actually being mixed that way? To be honest I’m no expert on this and it’s not my place to second guess a professional engineer. And I know from the article that it was a mess to start with.... But the fact that Wonderwall has the bass mixed incorrectly makes me think there was a cock up with the channels on some of the songs… To me from She’s Electric on it sounds correct…. Here's my thinking....

Hello
Centre Speaker - Backing Vocals echo (seems to remember/mentions the weather etc) sound weird/overwhelming? Could sound better in the rears?
View attachment 37966

Roll With It
Follows mixing pattern apart from the first set of backing vocals don't match the rest of the track. All of a sudden there are drums in the centre and they seem to be quite high.
View attachment 37967

Wonderwall
Main Vocal at the beginning is in centre channel. Bass is in the centre and a cello is in the LFE - should be the other way around.
View attachment 37968

Don’t Look Back In Anger
Follows the mixing pattern - just slightly curious if the backing vocals at the end in the centre should have been put in Rear Left?
View attachment 37969

Hey Now
Not sure what’s happening here at all?! Centre channel seems to match the fronts exactly?
View attachment 37970

Swamp Song
Not mixed for surround.

Some Might Say
Follows the mixing pattern. I don’t remember it sounding that great though?
View attachment 37971

Cast No Shadow
Follows the mixing pattern - strings in the rears just sound a bit overbearing/slightly different pitch to the stereo version? Especially around the 2 minute mark!
View attachment 37972

She’s Electric
Follows the mixing pattern.
View attachment 37973

Morning glory
Follows the mixing pattern.
View attachment 37974

Swamp Song
Not mixed for surround.

Champagne Supernova
Follows the mixing pattern.
View attachment 37975
There is no cello on lfe. This release has numerous issues. DEFINATELY major authoring and pressing errors. Listen to DLBIA in Audacity. A complete mess.
 
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