Old time four channel greetings

[David Freeman]

I work as a radio presenter in the UK - I look back nostalgically at the time when I could play SQ and QS discs on stereo radio and engage with the (probably very few) listeners who had the Sansui or Sony decoders.
Currently I am searching for Dolby Atmos content that sounds as exciting as the old Q8 or CD4 did. Or maybe I am remembering through rose tinted ears.

 

[kfbkfb]

I've read here in QQ that the Hafler/DynaQuad passive speaker matrix decoder/fake surround sound creator was popular in the UK (although the monthly audio magazines here in the USA did run wiring diagrams about how to set up "free" surround sound, I don't think it was very popular, I never heard of a Hafler/DynaQuad setup in a USA audio store).

Was there any effort to promote (on the FM broadcasts) the Hafler/DynaQuad method as a way to get "free" fake (sometimes real if the FM was broadcasting SQ or QS content) surround sound?

I know there were many Matrix H quad encoded test broadcasts, but AFAIK, mentioning that Matrix H could be partially decoded with the Hafler/DynaQuad method wasn't done.


Kirk Bayne

 

[gene_stl]

Welcome!

 

[Simon A]

I work as a radio presenter in the UK - I look back nostalgically at the time when I could play SQ and QS discs on stereo radio and engage with the (probably very few) listeners who had the Sansui or Sony decoders.
Currently I am searching for Dolby Atmos content that sounds as exciting as the old Q8 or CD4 did. Or maybe I am remembering through rose tinted ears.

Welcome!

 

[DuncanS]

I work as a radio presenter in the UK - I look back nostalgically at the time when I could play SQ and QS discs on stereo radio and engage with the (probably very few) listeners who had the Sansui or Sony decoders.
Currently I am searching for Dolby Atmos content that sounds as exciting as the old Q8 or CD4 did. Or maybe I am remembering through rose tinted ears.

On JazzFM?

 

[MrSmithers]

I work as a radio presenter in the UK - I look back nostalgically at the time when I could play SQ and QS discs on stereo radio and engage with the (probably very few) listeners who had the Sansui or Sony decoders.
Currently I am searching for Dolby Atmos content that sounds as exciting as the old Q8 or CD4 did. Or maybe I am remembering through rose tinted ears.

Welcome David... Love Jazz FM! There are some amazing Atmos mixes out there, it's just about finding the right mixes. But actually there are also quite a few classic quads that are available to stream either on Apple Music (in Dolby Audio - marketing slang) or on Tidal / Amazon Music in 360 Reality Audio (more marketing slang)... Have a look at this thread...

Music streaming on Apple Music in 5.1 (Dolby Audio)

So I know that Dolby Audio has started cropping up in places on Apple Music. Seems to be 5.1 mixes that they're making available. I confirmed 5.1 from my AppleTV from an album mentioned in another thread here. But there have also been some mishaps with stuff showing as Dolby Audio in places but...

www.quadraphonicquad.com

 

[jaybird100]

I work as a radio presenter in the UK - I look back nostalgically at the time when I could play SQ and QS discs on stereo radio and engage with the (probably very few) listeners who had the Sansui or Sony decoders.
Currently I am searching for Dolby Atmos content that sounds as exciting as the old Q8 or CD4 did. Or maybe I am remembering through rose tinted ears.

I may be wrong, but wouldn't you need to be able to broadcast Atmos in a discrete platform? SQ, and QS, were matrixed, and could be broadcast in the same manner as stereo. Nothing special needed to air those records in quad.

 

[MidiMagic]

I've read here in QQ that the Hafler/DynaQuad passive speaker matrix decoder/fake surround sound creator was popular in the UK (although the monthly audio magazines here in the USA did run wiring diagrams about how to set up "free" surround sound,

The Hafler diamond and DynaQuad are slightly different systems. The Hafler diamond was a system with F, L, R, and B speakers. DynaQuad has the traditional four corners LF RF LB and RB. They are real quadraphonic systems and encoders exist for them.

I recorded a set of sound effects for a stage play held in 1971 using the Hafler diamond system. It worked very well. It is an encode/decode system.

I own a record encoded in DynaQuad.

I don't think it was very popular, I never heard of a Hafler/DynaQuad setup in a USA audio store).

There were no Hafler diamond systems in music stores because there was nothing to sell but speaker wire. But there were many DynaQuad decoders in stores. I have the original DynaQuad and several of the clones. Each company created their own name for their DynaQuad decoder. Here are some of them:

2-4 Enhance (Sony/Columbia)
Composer (Lafayette)
DynaQuad (Dynaco)
Quadaptor (Dynaco)
Quadradial (Marantz)
Quadralizer (Pioneer)
Quadrant (H H Scott)
Quadraplex (Magnavox)
Quadrasizer (SSI)
Quadrix (Kenwood)
Quadruplex (Panasonic)
QuasiQuad (BSR)
Quatrasonic (Eico)
Quatravox (Realistic)

There were definitely DynaQuad systems in audio stores.

Was there any effort to promote (on the FM broadcasts) the Hafler/DynaQuad method as a way to get "free" fake (sometimes real if the FM was broadcasting SQ or QS content) surround sound?

Occasionally a station published the circuit to let people get a taste of encoded quad in their broadcasts.

I know there were many Matrix H quad encoded test broadcasts, but AFAIK, mentioning that Matrix H could be partially decoded with the Hafler/DynaQuad method wasn't done.


Kirk Bayne

Any RM decoder (including Hafler diamond and DynaQuad can partially decode H. The front to back separation is lower.

 

[marpow]

Welcome to QQ from California.

 

[par4ken]

I've read here in QQ that the Hafler/DynaQuad passive speaker matrix decoder/fake surround sound creator was popular in the UK (although the monthly audio magazines here in the USA did run wiring diagrams about how to set up "free" surround sound, I don't think it was very popular, I never heard of a Hafler/DynaQuad setup in a USA audio store).

Was there any effort to promote (on the FM broadcasts) the Hafler/DynaQuad method as a way to get "free" fake (sometimes real if the FM was broadcasting SQ or QS content) surround sound?

I know there were many Matrix H quad encoded test broadcasts, but AFAIK, mentioning that Matrix H could be partially decoded with the Hafler/DynaQuad method wasn't done.


Kirk Bayne

Around 1972 everyone was selling "Hafler" type quad adaptor boxes. I bought mine from "The Record Club of Canada". Radio Shack and almost everyone else were selling them as well. The lower cost stereo systems of that time almost all boasted "quad" sound with "Hafler" type speaker connections for the back speakers. I suspect that marketing ploy confused people into thinking that they had a real quad system.

 

[jaybird100]

The Hafler diamond and DynaQuad are slightly different systems. The Hafler diamond was a system with F, L, R, and B speakers. DynaQuad has the traditional four corners LF RF LB and RB. They are real quadraphonic systems and encoders exist for them.

View attachment 85611
I recorded a set of sound effects for a stage play held in 1971 using the Hafler diamond system. It worked very well. It is an encode/decode system.

I own a record encoded in DynaQuad.




There were no Hafler diamond systems in music stores because there was nothing to sell but speaker wire. But there were many DynaQuad decoders in stores. I have the original DynaQuad and several of the clones. Each company created their own name for their DynaQuad decoder. Here are some of them:

2-4 Enhance (Sony/Columbia)
Composer (Lafayette)
DynaQuad (Dynaco)
Quadaptor (Dynaco)
Quadradial (Marantz)
Quadralizer (Pioneer)
Quadrant (H H Scott)
Quadraplex (Magnavox)
Quadrasizer (SSI)
Quadrix (Kenwood)
Quadruplex (Panasonic)
QuasiQuad (BSR)
Quatrasonic (Eico)
Quatravox (Realistic)

There were definitely DynaQuad systems in audio stores.



Occasionally a station published the circuit to let people get a taste of encoded quad in their broadcasts.



Any RM decoder (including Hafler diamond and DynaQuad can partially decode H. The front to back separation is lower.

Dynaquad was marketed as a way to extract a quad effect from stereo sources. It was dependent on phase differences in the recordings to work its "magic". I also have a Vanguard-produced Dynaquad demo LP, which I've played through the Involve 4.1 mode on the SM. The results were clearly proof that, if Dynaco actually had an encoder for their system, it was very close to RM.

 

[par4ken]

Dynaquad was marketed as a way to extract a quad effect from stereo sources. It was dependent on phase differences in the recordings to work its "magic". I also have a Vanguard-produced Dynaquad demo LP, which I've played through the Involve 4.1 mode on the SM. The results were clearly proof that, if Dynaco actually had an encoder for their system, it was very close to RM.

The original "diamond" configuration made sense from a decode standpoint but most people don't like having a speaker directly behind their head. Dynaco quickly switched to the four corner quad layout. Dolby surround reverted back to that original "diamond" idea but with multiple surround speakers but still using only one surround channel.

 

[kfbkfb]

The 1st quad demo I heard was at Radio Shack - their Stereo-4 decoder + Stereo-4 album (in mid-1972).

The Team Electronics stores in eastern IA had quad receivers set up to demo, and an independent audio store had a fantastic CD-4 demo system set up in their demo room, but I never heard (or saw promoted) a Hafler/DynaQuad system (either hardware or just the special speaker connection).

The Hafler/DynaQuad scheme will partially decode QS, SQ, H, UHJ, DS and other matrix systems (CB and nearby content will be routed to the surround speaker(s).

Maybe because Hafler/DynaQuad is nearly free, it sounds pretty good too


Kirk Bayne

 

[par4ken]

Halfer/DynaQuad does almost nothing with SQ as few such recordings employ Cb. Results varied from OK to very good with other matrix and stereo records. It was cheap and was a great stepping stone to real quad. I recommend using an adjustable active decoder with quad headphones. Check the Akai SS-1 thread.

Akai SS-1 Universal Synthesizer

I scored this unit from ebay last week for $9.99 (thanks for the heads-up Quad-8). I went for it because I have a respect for Akai in general; never knew they ever produced an outboard decoder. Also, two front-panel controls caught my eye: separate front and rear channel matrix adjustment...

www.quadraphonicquad.com

 

[jaybird100]

What the system(s) did was to extract the random out of phase from the stereo source and played it via the single or double speakers placed in the rear.

Often, a low value wire wound resistor, or wire wound variable control, was placed between the negative lead of both speakers and earth, thereby introducing a small amount of the audio from the fronts to create a small degree of separation on the rears.
This has nothing to do with RM or anything else. All of the matrix systems were not so easily decoded, you would obviously obtain some sound out of the rears, but to say it is decoded is going too far.

My reference to RM, in this context, was in reference to the demo record. Any matrixed quad record, SQ, QS, EV, etc. will yield similar results, since all matrix systems are phase-dependent. That simple circuit you described, can use them to create a Surround effect. Those phase differences are also present in stereo material. Although purely random, they still can provide an interesting surround effect from stereo sources. It's all in the mix. I didn't say the Hafler circuit could properly decode any matrix system. Please re-read my post.

 

[par4ken]

UHJ are 2-channel stereo compatible Ambisonic recordings. Although incorporating work done by the BBC (Matrix-H), a QS decoder will not be able to properly decode UHJ.

The adaptor made for Matrix-H inserted a 58 or 60 degree phase shift between the Lt and Rt signal to approximate a QS encoded signal into the decoder. One version swapped the rear decoded channels around as well (also possibly swapped the inputs as well). With Matrix-H full mono compatibility was their top goal. That idea has always reminded me of Compatible Groove Stereo!

 

[kfbkfb]

There were no Hafler diamond systems in music stores because there was nothing to sell but speaker wire.

I think not promoting the passive speaker surround sound scheme during the Quad era was a mistake, perhaps a speaker maker could have developed a small speaker + wire package which could be sold with instructions to get "free lunch" surround sound from most stereo systems, people would become accustomed to surround sound as the default way to listen to audio.


Kirk Bayne

 

[Mesozoic Mike]

Welcome from Torrance, California

 

[chucky3042]

The Hafler dynaco trick is what suckered me into quad at the age of 14. I still really like it. It was such a window into what was hidden, and even a poor boy could afford it.

 

[barfle]

Although I didn’t start off with any sort of decoder, a pair of cheap, crappy speakers wired in parallel with my decent, but not excellent, stereo pair gave a cool surround effect in my first “surround” setup.

I didn’t know about Hafler at the time, or I undoubtedly would have tried it.

In response to the OP, from what I know of stereo radio broadcasting, I doubt if Atmos would fit in the bandwidth, and I’m naware of any hardware that could handle the encoding or decoding. Matrix quad is probably the limit, although there may be possibilities outside the US.