DVD/DTS Poll Oldfield, Mike - Tubular Bells (2009 5.1 Remix) [DD DVD]

[neil wilkes]

I hope he's moved onto Blu-ray before he gets round to the Ultimate editions of Ommadawn, Hergest Ridge and Incantations though, this 5.1 DD releases just won't do. I would love to hear those three albums in 24/192 5.1 PCM if the surround mix is done well.

Why Blu Ray?
It limits the potential sales, and the video section is frankly unnecessary.
Good old DVDA will be every bit (pun unintentional) as good, and far less expensive to create, produce, license & replicate plus he will sell more copies given the installed base of 500 million DVD players out there against a couple of million BD players.

 

[dobyblue]

Why Blu Ray?
It limits the potential sales, and the video section is frankly unnecessary.
Good old DVDA will be every bit (pun unintentional) as good, and far less expensive to create, produce, license & replicate plus he will sell more copies given the installed base of 500 million DVD players out there against a couple of million BD players.

Couple of million? Try over 30 million bd-capable devices already.

Good old DVD-A, that ship has sailed my friend. The only people interested in a title coming out on DVD-A are the people on this forum. Music titles on Blu-ray will sell more than music titles on DVD-A. The video is absolutely necessary to allow a new media to succeed where others (SACD, DVD-A) have failed miserably. Blu-ray is the complete package, it allows for high definition audio to please the audiophiles (up to 7.1 24/96 and 5.1 24/192) and high definition video to please those looking for something more for their sets:

Let me interject as to why this would be useful. Pearl Jam's ultimate Ten collection featured a DVD of unplugged with 480i MPEG-2 and 5.1 448 Kbps Dolby Digital (it also includes 16/48 PCM 2.0 which is my preferred option). Changing that to 16/48 5.1 PCM with 1080p24 MPEG-4 video still would have left loads of room for additional footage of interviews and other performances from the time period as well as the entire album in high resolution 2.0 stereo and multi-channel 24-bit.

Not only that but BD-Live would allow for additional content (Neil Young is already doing this) like a re-mastered Footsteps or Yellow Ledbetter to be downloaded only for people that had purchased the Blu-ray edition. That means no double-dipping, something that I think would sit well with a lot of people, especially anyone that's a huge fan of Terminator 2.

As for the costs you always talk about how impossible it is for any independant studio to go with Blu-ray. Can you please then explain how any of these studios managed it? (Not all of these are indies, but the majority are)

• 101 DISTRIBUTION
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The cost of Blu-ray has gone down tremendously since 2006 regardless of the number of titles you think you need (1,000 versus 100,000). Over two years ago Richard Casey of R&B Films (Indie) stated that he only needed to sell 20,000 copies to break even on a title....TWO YEARS AGO! Replication costs at that time alone were far higher than they are now. Given that costs of BD are well less than 50% of what they were for the smallest of runs (1,000 titles) it seems a bit like desperation to hold onto a format that outlived it's potential years ago. This is how the AACS costs changed recently:

AACS Content Provider Agreement Fee: this is the fee that a studio or content holder must pay to become an AACS Content Provider. It used to be $3,000 up front. Now it is payable in annual $500 increments, and the Content Provider can terminate its agreement at any time. This one change makes it possible for first-time and low volume content holders to get going with BD with a much lower start-up investment and at affordable per-title costs.

Content Certificate and Order Fulfilment Fee: this fee is for each glass master produced. It has dropped from $1,300 per title to $500 per title.

Media fee: this fee is applied for each disc replicated, and it stays unchanged at $0.04 per disc.

For example, the AACS costs for a first-time Blu-ray Disc publisher (for a run of 2,000 copies) has dropped from $4,380 (3,000 + 1,300 + 0.04 * 2,000) to $1,080 (500 + 500 + 0.04 * 2,000), that is to say, a saving of over 75%.

For a publisher that has already been publishing on BD and hence has already paid his Content Provider Agreement Fee, the fees to publish a run of 2,000 units have dropped from $1,380 to just $580.

I'm tired of the same struggling picture on DVD and most people don't have a clue about DVD-Audio which makes it completely undesirable for major studio releases which represent a crapload of the music I like. Of all my friends only one of them has a DVD-A or SACD title (not including a/v forum online friends obviously). Well over ten of them already have Blu-ray's.

You might be happy holding onto a format that has a handful of releases per year ten years into its lifespan, but I am not. I want any title to have a chance of coming out on a high rez disc and Blu-ray has the best chance of that happening.

 

[dobyblue]

I'd be careful with the vynyl. The ultimate collection has an LP in it and they seem to be scratched to death. Have a look at http://tubular.net/forums/ikonboard.cgi?;act=ST;f=41;t=9160;st=40 on the tubular.net site

Thanks for the head's up - I think I'll look for a NM copy of the original '73 Virgin UK pressing on Discogs instead of considering the new one.

 

[neil wilkes]

@ dobyblue.

Don't know where you get your costs from.
Here in the UK things are nothing like that. This is from one of the very small number of replication companies offering this (expensive) service:

Steps for Blu-ray Replication

1. If Region Protection is required then a BDA agreement is required - approx $500.00 per year
2. AACS License - the content owner must apply for a AACS ID which can be done through AACS licensing organisation http://www.aacsla.com/home. This must be done by the CONTENT owner - approx $3000.00 one-off fee, with this license, the content owner will be provided with an AACS ID, which is required by the replication plant before any manufacturing can be started.
3. AACS Charges - per master there is an AACS charge to cover AACS Media Key, Content Clarification and AACS order processing fees which comes to approx. £1100.00 per title ($2200) There is also an additional charge for the AACS email delivery fee, also required in the set up of BD replication. Approx. £125.00 per title ($250)

$250 for a f@#!in' email! That is outrageous, whatever way you dress it up!

Furthermore.
Content Owners also need separate signed agreements for AACS (not just one, apparently, or so I was told on Monday at Air Studios) and a US California based attorney is highly recommended due to the vagaries of US law.
I will - for grins - post the replication quote on a run of 2,000 discs although you need to do 10,000 upwards to break even.
Most music titles will do nowhere near this number so would lose money.
Add in the high cost of authoring, testing, proofing etc (of a necessity due to the stupid costs of the necessary gear to do this) and the price is still far too high for most.

EDIT

Sorry for the OT ranting.
I apologise unreservedly.
I just do not see (and neither do any of my clients at this point) see why we should allow Sony to pick our pockets to the extent they are here.
Especially for a breached system that is essentially loading up the cost with pointless DRM.
AACS needs to be dropped as a mandatory requirement. When - or if - it is, it all looks a lot more realistic.

 

[dobyblue]

@ dobyblue.

Don't know where you get your costs from.
Here in the UK things are nothing like that. This is from one of the very small number of replication companies offering this (expensive) service:

$250 for a f@#!in' email! That is outrageous, whatever way you dress it up!

Neil, you need to get a new quote. Those prices are over a year old that you've posted and the e-mail fee was dropped a long time ago.

All the new pricing, which is WORLDWIDE, can be found here - http://www.aacsla.com/license

It's not debatable. If someone else is trying to charge you more for AACS fee's I'd simply report them to AACS LA.

 

[quadrofis]

A fantastic surround mix. DD or no DD...I feel this is the most musical surround mix of any TB title to date!
It's the first time (and I know the SACD and the 2003 DVD-A) that the rear information actually makes sense rtather than being just awkward. From the organ stabs dissolving themselves into reverb, you'll know you're in for a good time.
Side 2 has always been improved ever since 1992's TBII. And this time all the intertwined guitar pickings for the first few minutes appear like they've always meant to be in surround.
Shame only they didn't clean up the statical noise near the end during the pearly guitar solos...they did it in 1998, but now have forgotton it...

 

[dobyblue]

I had read somewhere (maybe Tubular.net) that the EU version has a dts surround mix on it.

Can anyone confirm or deny this?

I listened to the SACD last week-end, fully DSD>Analog signal path, with only my front and rear speakers on which are the same (4 @ Paradigm Monitor 11) in LARGE full bandwidth setting - I think it sounds awesome although the 2003 mix is clearly more boisterous in the Part 1 finale with monstrously low LFE.

 

[Baker]

I'm french, bought it in amazon.uk, and there's no trace of DTS whatsoever.

 

[rusinurbe]

Purchased in the UK and if there is a DTS track its very well hidden

 

[fredblue]

I got this the day it came out in the UK and there's no DTS just bog-standard DD.

I'm not a fan of this release in any way and still feel as I did back then that it's a great disappointment.
I much prefer the quad mix and the 2003 DVDA reworking to this for all-round fits and giggles!

It's a "6" from me.

 

[GOS]

I so wanted this to be over the top good. It's fair. I give it 7's.

 

[neil wilkes]

If anyone is interested, this can be bought in lossless FLAC at http://blog.bowers-wilkins.com/music/exclusive-tubular-bells-studio-quality-downloads-including-a-5-1-version/

 

[Franklin]

There's something really exciting for me about seeing a picture of the master tape box. Here's the price list for the UK: http://www.bowers-wilkins.co.uk/Society_of_Sound/Society_of_Sound/Music/Tubular_Bells.html

...and the US: http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/Society_of_Sound/Society_of_Sound/Music/Tubular_Bells.html

 

[dobyblue]

There's something really exciting for me about seeing a picture of the master tape box. I couldn't see a way to even find the price of the 5.1 FLAC download though.

The 2.0 or 5.1 2009 mixes in 24-bit/48kHz flacs are £15.00/each or you can get a bundle (both + CD-quality 2.0) for £20.00.

UK customers can order here - http://www.bowers-wilkins.co.uk/Society_of_Sound/Society_of_Sound/Music/Tubular_Bells.html

They also have Peter Gabriel's So, stereo only (the 24-bit option is substantially less dynamically squished than the CD version) - http://www.bowers-wilkins.co.uk/Society_of_Sound/Society_of_Sound/Music/Peter-Gabriel-So.html

 

[Franklin]

Their how to play 5.1 files bit in FAQ was fantastically unhelpful!

 

[dobyblue]

See if your AVR or Blu-ray player (or DVD-A/SACD player) supports flac from USB, if so just bung them on a flash drive and plug them in.

I believe Cirlinca also allows for 5 free DVD-A discs burned with their trial so you could at least get it as a DVD-A that way.

 

[Franklin]

Unfortunately I can't play files via USB, and I used my 5 disc trial limit a while back (it only counts for discs of a certain size, so I was able to get several done outside of the count!) I don't even have the DD version, and I do have LFE issues on the current system so DD may have to be the route. Nice that a higher res version is there, although it's more expensive than an authored disc with packaging!

 

[Cheezmo]

I tried to purchase this from the B&W website today and it looks like my $32 got me a link to a web page that says... File not found."

Very exciting. I've sent a message to support (I think, their Web form didn't make clear who to contact for problems with downloads).

 

[Valhalla]

I tried to purchase this from the B&W website today and it looks like my $32 got me a link to a web page that says... File not found."

Very exciting. I've sent a message to support (I think, their Web form didn't make clear who to contact for problems with downloads).

I got exactly the same thing. I don't want to contact support if I can avoid it since I gave them a fictitious UK address! Let me know how you get on.

 

[Cheezmo]

Probably no one has purchased it in a while and they forgot to keep the download hosted.