OPPO SACD S/PDIF?

[watsy_73]

I received this information from AVS Forums, i hope something comes of it!


Posted by: csludwig2
On: 01-24-2019 04:06 PM

News flash, reading posts on another forum it appears the new Sony UBP x800 will transmit SACD content down sampled to 44.1 via S/PDIF output. My understanding is that SACD Player Manufacturing License requires S/PDIF outputs to mute SACD transmission. It appears the Sony unit does this by firmware, a user stating that before a firmware upgrade his unit transmitted SACD at 176.4 via S/PDIF. He also confirmed he was not transmitting the CD layer, since he was playing a single layer SACD. This makes me wonder if the OPPO's might now get such firmware to play SACDs via S/PDIF. That would be nice if 5.1 multi-channel SACD was delivered, since some folks do not have HDMI or analog multi-channel prepros.

 

[GOS]

Hmmm. I don't even know what that means.

 

[LuvMyQuad]

Hmmm. I don't even know what that means.

The good thing is, you don't need to know what it means.

 

[Franklin]

S/PDIF = Sony/Philips Digital InterFace, if I recall correctly. Basically it's the digital signal that commonly uses the RCA digital socket on AV gear. It means DSD signal would have to be re-encoded to PCM, possibly at 16/44.1 or maybe 16/48.

 

[The Rang]

AFAIK, DSD has never been available in its native form from SPDIF or optical outputs. I stand to be corrected but I believe DSD licensing rules dictate this. The question is what does the player convert it to before sending it out.

 

[milt]

I received this information from AVS Forums, i hope something comes of it!


Posted by: csludwig2
On: 01-24-2019 04:06 PM

News flash, reading posts on another forum it appears the new Sony UBP x800 will transmit SACD content down sampled to 44.1 via S/PDIF output. My understanding is that SACD Player Manufacturing License requires S/PDIF outputs to mute SACD transmission. It appears the Sony unit does this by firmware, a user stating that before a firmware upgrade his unit transmitted SACD at 176.4 via S/PDIF. He also confirmed he was not transmitting the CD layer, since he was playing a single layer SACD. This makes me wonder if the OPPO's might now get such firmware to play SACDs via S/PDIF. That would be nice if 5.1 multi-channel SACD was delivered, since some folks do not have HDMI or analog multi-channel prepros.

I'd be willing to bet a lot more people have HDMI than S/PDIF. Sony owns DSD so they make the rules

 

[windhoek]

My Sony UHP-H1 outputs transcoded and downsampled audio via coax digital as well, at either 44.1 or 48Khz (my DAC doesn't specify which exactly but the relevant LED tells me it's one or the other). Fwiw, I played a single layer SHM-SACD to try it out.

 

[jamoke]

AFAIK, DSD has never been available in its native form from SPDIF or optical outputs. I stand to be corrected but I believe DSD licensing rules dictate this. The question is what does the player convert it to before sending it out.

Most likely converted to down-sampled 2 channel LPCM only.
Any multichannel from SPDIF would have to be in the form of Dolby or DTS 5.1.
Just can't imagine a player doing a DSD to Dolby/DTS conversion, doesn't make sense to me.
As for the Oppo, you already have quality outputs with the analogs and HDMI, why down-sample or convert to lossy mch for SPDIF?

 

[boxhead]

Well I just tried it out. The disc I used was the original single layer SACD of Billy Joel's 52nd Street. On the UBP-X800 I had DSD output set to 'off'. FYI I tried it with the other setting (auto) and that produced no output on the coax at all.

So what did it put out? PCM 2.0 at 44.1kHz. Plain old stereo. The player was definitely playing the surround later on the SACD. To check whether it had encoded the 2.0 signal I ran it through Dolby Surround and DTS Neo 6 decoders on my receiver. The resulting output did not resemble the original multichannel in any way.

One last thing, the sound quality of the stereo output from the SPDIF was not good at all - way less than CD quality. I'm wondering if this was deliberate? Provide the capability for those that need it, but don't give them too much.

Sent from my K5000 using Tapatalk

 

[windhoek]

Interestingly, it turns out my Sony BDP can downmix and output multichannel content as stereo via coax digital out. I went to play DSotM there but I hadn't switched my amp to AV Bypass mode before I pressed play so my amp was still receiving audio from my DAC, which is connected to my amp via coax digital, and so full phat downmixed stereo is what I heard from my front speakers.

Maybe Sony did decide to include some basic options for Josephine Bloggs who might not have any other SACD-friendly equipment in their audio chain and maybe to allow other SACD hardware manufacturers to do the same.

 

[windhoek]

Well blow me down - it turns out the Sony UHP-H1 also outputs SACD content via Optical at 44.1 or 48Khz!

 

[windhoek]

Apparently, there are quite a few players that can output SACD transcoded and downsampled to 16/44 PCM via coax digital, and possibly optical, including the Marantz UD7007 and the Cambridge Audio CXU. Perhaps we're simply late to the party as it were.

 

[windhoek]

Incidentally, when I was experimenting with this last night, I discovered that 48kHz was the max sample rate being passed from my Sony BDP to my DAC when using coax digital as well as optical. I thought those connections allowed greater sample rates than that - at least 24/96. My DAC can accept 24/192 and my BDP can output 24/192 so that makes me think my coax digital and optical cables might not be suitable - they're at least 20 years old. Is it likely that my cables that aren't up to spec? Or is there likely to be some other reason why my DAC is only receiving 48kHz audio?

 

[windhoek]

Further experimentation revealed that my coax digital connection does support 24/192, but only when I'm streaming such files over network. I guess the limitation of 48kHz only applies when spinning discs.

 

[jamoke]

I guess the limitation of 48kHz only applies when spinning discs.

Limitation applies to SACD discs only.

 

[Franklin]

RCA cables wouldn't communicate anything to a device of itself. If it couldn't transmit a higher bandwidth it would fail, there would be no means of one device (or the cable) telling the other to change the sample/bit rate. It's just a digital drainpipe.

 

[windhoek]

Limitation applies to SACD discs only.

That makes sense but for some reason, my DAC isn't receiving audio greater than 48kHz via coax digital when playing discs, such as DVD-A discs. It works fine when I stream hi-res audio from my NAS but when I play a hi-res disc, all I get is 48kHz.

 

[Franklin]

I don't think you'll get anymore than 48kHz if you're sending LPCM multi-channel. Otherwise, is there a setting for downsampling set in your DVD player menu?

 

[windhoek]

I don't think you'll get anymore than 48kHz if you're sending LPCM multi-channel. Otherwise, is there a setting for downsampling set in your DVD player menu?

Yeah, I can choose from a wide variety of sample rates to be output - I just don't understand why the limitation applies when I'm spinning a disc, any disc, and not when I'm streaming. Maybe it's to do with copyright or something as it's clearly nothing to do with technical limitations. It's almost a moot point I suppose as most of the time I'll be streaming music straight from my NAS to my DAC.

 

[jamoke]

Yeah, I can choose from a wide variety of sample rates to be output - I just don't understand why the limitation applies when I'm spinning a disc, any disc, and not when I'm streaming. Maybe it's to do with copyright or something as it's clearly nothing to do with technical limitations. It's almost a moot point I suppose as most of the time I'll be streaming music straight from my NAS to my DAC.

I can't speak for the Sony players, but I know all Oppo's have an audio setting that defines the upper limit of LPCM thru the coax/optical digital output.
I believe the default is 48K but can be set to 96k or 192K. The player will down-sample to the defined setting.
Bitstream is another matter...