Phono Preamp questions

[GOS]

So, I assume the knee-jerk answer is yes.....but anyway.

Is buying a stand-alone phono preamp going to sound better than using the phono jacks on an AVR? Assuming yes, what should one be looking for in buying a phono preamp? I see you can buy one for less than $100 (I would personally not go that route) and you can spend bunches.

Let's just assume I have a Technics 1200 MKII (I'm borrowing my buddies....but trying to convince him to sell it to me). Let me also say, there is little chance in Hell, I will be spending more than $500 for the preamp. I see there is an open box at Music Direct, and it's a good price.

VPI Cliffwood MM Phono Preamp

 

[Sonik Wiz]

Is buying a stand-alone phono preamp going to sound better than using the phono jacks on an AVR?

I guess that depends on how good/bad the AVR preamp is relative to the quality of the outboard preamp. A low quality stand alone unit may not sound better.

The circuitry of a simple RIAA preamp is indeed very simple. Years ago I built one to use instead of the built in preamp in my Kenwood receiver. It used an HA-911 IC for each ch & a handful of associated parts. Knowing that, looking at the VPI box, I think $350 is way over priced for what it does. Even using precision high quality components and newer better op amps than the HA-911 doing it DIY the most expensive part could be the enclosure.

If you've got <$500 to spend I'd suggest looking a full featured preamp that will be switchable for MM/MC, allow you to adjust input resistance & capacitance along with level, bass/treble rumble filter(!) and balance. In regards to the latter my Adcom GFP-555 preamp has perfect balance when the balance is adjusted just barely off of center detent CCW. I know that the simple box preamps, like the Pro-ject are very popular on QQ but my experience says the imperfections found in analog LP play back needs a bit more flexibility.

I am hesitant to point out any particular brands/models I haven't had 1st hand experience with, but Parasound, Rotel, NAD are just a few that have made quality full featured pre-amps today & of course in the past. I would never buy a TT or speaker on Ebay because you don't know what abuse something electro-mechanical like that has been through. But preamps, tuners, line level signal processors are items that hold up better over time. Maybe a used but quality preamp with all the bells & whistles is worth checking out.

 

[kap'n krunch]

Humble answer: I guess it does make it sound better if you get a decent pre amp.

I got this one for about $100.. I know it's out of stock but I am sure you can find it somewhere else...

 

[DuncanS]

I have the Pro-Ject Phono Box S2 Ultra (its around £200/US350) which I use with a Rega Planar III and the Orfton cartridge it came with. It can be switched between MC & MM and has settable input resistance & capacitance loading. I'm really happy with it.
NB: I am tempted to get a Technics SL-1210GR. I have a dead SL-10 linear tracker which no longer tracks

 

[atrocity]

NB: I am tempted to get a Technics SL-1210GR. I have a dead SL-10 linear tracker which no longer tracks

I had an SL-Q6 die on me a while back. Took it to the local vinyl guy who replaced a belt and it's all good again. $30, I think.

 

[gene_stl]

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?pages/Audio_Equipment_Reviews/
Enter the search term "phono preamp". There are about six phono preamps that are within your budget or close AND reccommended by Amir. Amir does very detailed and accurate testing. He knows what he is doing and has the latest gear from Audio Precision.

 

[John Svensson]

I'm a Schitt Audio fan, I have two Mani's for turntables at two houses, MM or MC switchable, about $150 with postage. They have a higher cost phono pre-amp if you want to spend more. I haven't found the need.

 

[GOS]

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?pages/Audio_Equipment_Reviews/
Enter the search term "phono preamp". There are about six phono preamps that are within your budget or close AND reccommended by Amir. Amir does very detailed and accurate testing. He knows what he is doing and has the latest gear from Audio Precision.

That is an amazing website! I appreciate the link, it is very helpful.

 

[fredblue]

So, I assume the knee-jerk answer is yes.....but anyway.

Is buying a stand-alone phono preamp going to sound better than using the phono jacks on an AVR? Assuming yes, what should one be looking for in buying a phono preamp? I see you can buy one for less than $100 (I would personally not go that route) and you can spend bunches.

Let's just assume I have a Technics 1200 MKII (I'm borrowing my buddies....but trying to convince him to sell it to me). Let me also say, there is little chance in Hell, I will be spending more than $500 for the preamp. I see there is an open box at Music Direct, and it's a good price.

VPI Cliffwood MM Phono Preamp

how good is that SL1200?
(i miss mine so much at the moment, i'm dribbling in the corner with withdrawal symptoms as we speak!)

nearly forgot to answer the question!
i use(d) a cheapo Pro-Ject Phono Box S with decent results, it has all sorts of nifty wee dip switches for capacitance, subsonic filter, etc and it is/was peanuts.

on that note, i bet your sub's stopped flapping since you slipped the SL1200 into your rig!

 

[GOS]

on that note, i bet your sub's stopped flapping since you slipped the SL1200 into your rig!

Yes, it has! Pretty shocking, the difference.

 

[fredblue]

Yes, it has! Pretty shocking, the difference.

i think probably partly due to the heavy plinth being constructed of a special non-resonant composite material sandwiched between a cast alloy top plate and a solid rubber base?

either that or the Scotch whiskey has kicked in

 

[J. PUPSTER]

Yes, it has! Pretty shocking, the difference.

When I got a new-in-box Pro-Ject and set it up; it felt like a toy to me ( and remember, it was dead on arrival also, had to send it back!)
That’s when I knew I had to spend more and get what I always wanted anyway -a 1200. It’s been a rockin’ joy and rock solid.
Besides, they’re Freddie Blue and Bob R. approved, plenty good enough for me!

 

[fredblue]

When I got a new-in-box Pro-Ject and set it up; it felt like a toy to me ( and remember, it was dead on arrival also, had to send it back!)
That’s when I knew I had to spend more and get what I always wanted anyway -a 1200. It’s been a rockin’ joy and rock solid.
Besides, they’re Freddie Blue and Bob R. approved, plenty good enough for me!

are you using that amazing AT 750 (570? an anagram of that?) Micro Line stylus on your Technics already, Mister Pupster?

ps. i wouldn't have another Pro-Ject turntable for a gift, "toy" is a very apt description! i remember Bob saying he used an SL1200 for his CD-4 transfers and really that was enough for me

 

[J. PUPSTER]

As to phono preamps; seems it would be helpful if there was a web site that would sample different music & convert it to 96/24 wav files for comparison. Just to see how all these different pre-amps “color” the sound. Hard to find a TT audio store in this era for comparing. And also you’d hear it through your own gear.
I believe mine is a Rotel RQ-970BX, but like most stuff, it gets mixed reviews, so who the hell knows.

 

[J. PUPSTER]

are you using that amazing AT 750 (570? an anagram of that?) Micro Line stylus on your Technics already, Mister Pupster?

ps. i wouldn't have another Pro-Ject turntable for a gift, "toy" is a very apt description! i remember Bob saying he used an SL1200 for his CD-4 transfers and really that was enough for me

Not much yet, I’m using an AT-440MLb; I did listen to the 750 some and thought it was just slightly brighter sounding, but I still like the 440 better, for overall imaging.

 

[GOS]

I believe mine is a Rotel RQ-970BX, but like most stuff, it gets mixed reviews, so who the hell knows.

 

[GOS]

So, how does one go about finding a 1200 MKII? I mean, they go for crazy prices on ebay.

 

[fredblue]

As to phono preamps; seems it would be helpful if there was a web site that would sample different music & convert it to 96/24 wav files for comparison. Just to see how all these different pre-amps “color” the sound. Hard to find a TT audio store in this era for comparing. And also you’d hear it through your own gear.
I believe mine is a Rotel RQ-970BX, but like most stuff, it gets mixed reviews, so who the hell knows.

it would be jolly useful.. though i do think Gansgta Pupsta those capissitanccce/loading switches on some models like the just above entry level Pro-Jects make such a stark difference to treble etc., i think those kinds of technical things have as much effect as anything with that schtuff ?

 

[fredblue]

Not much yet, I’m using an AT-440MLb; I did listen to the 750 some and thought it was just slightly brighter sounding, but I still like the 440 better, for overall imaging.

even brighter than the AT440?? schweet cheeses that must be ear-piercingly bright!!

maybe the 750 will be just the ticket for CD-4 porpoises

 

[fredblue]

View attachment 61206

i used to like Rotel gear; basic, no frills outer casing, designed in the West, knocked up in the Far East, it just worked.. the couple of amps i had of theirs in the early 90s the toroidal whatchyamacallit was almost tank-like in its bulkitudinal properties (a bit like the underside of an SL1200..!!)