Pink Floyd - "Animals" 5.1 Surround Sound Mix (Blu-Ray & SACD editions out in September 2022!)

[Guy Robinson]

A big sub is a must to go (real) low smoothly (Polk Audio HTS 12).

I agree that at least one is required. More than one smooths out the bass so that it's pretty equal wherever you are in the room. I found that 3 x 12 inch was the sweet spot. At least one, (the front left one), should be of the quality of an SVS.

 

[AYanguas]

..., by including both LPCM and DTS HD-MA of everything, when they will be identical since DTS HD-MA is lossless.

I remember have read something about including both DTS and LPCM tracks in Blu-rays, as a standard, for compatibility reasons. Perhaps that was a norm for Blu-ray films.

In any case, with my 7.1 and Denon, there are differences when playing LPCM (play just 5.1 speakers) or DTS (play 7.1 speakers), in addition to any possible subtle difference in decoding. With DTS, the Surrounds (side) channels content is copied to the Surround Backs.

 

[JediJoker]

I remember have read something about including both DTS and LPCM tracks in Blu-rays, as a standard, for compatibility reasons.

Indeed, all DTS/Dolby streams have layers that can be peeled back like an onion, including DTS-HD Master Audio and Dolby TrueHD. So, the lossy "cores" of those streams ensure backwards compatibility with pre-lossless AVRs/TVs/etc. whether connected via HDMI, optical, or digital coaxial. Now, why then also include LPCM surround? Probably because there's space, and it's a guaranteed 1-to-1 copy of the surround master (assuming no authoring issues).

 

[AYanguas]

Indeed, all DTS/Dolby streams have layers that can be peeled back like an onion, including DTS-HD Master Audio and Dolby TrueHD. So, the lossy "cores" of those streams ensure backwards compatibility with pre-lossless AVRs/TVs/etc. whether connected via HDMI, optical, or digital coaxial. Now, why then also include LPCM surround? Probably because there's space, and it's a guaranteed 1-to-1 copy of the surround master (assuming no authoring issues).

I think it's a heritage from the past.

When DTS HD-MA started on films, there were old AVRs that did not supported it. Perhaps they should be able to decode the core DTS?. So the producers established the norm (or standard) that the Blu-ray films should include also the lossless LPCM track for those old AVRs, that they could decode, instead.

Currently it seems outdated. And we always think about 'what a waste of Blu-ray disc space'. Better to include some other good extras for us, like videos or the complete Pigs on the Wing two parts with the Snowy White guitar interlude.

Edited: I said outdated? Perhaps Not. Some people may have still those old AVRs.

 

[Tres Discrete]

Wondering if anyone has both Blu-Ray and SACD and compared them?
Debating if it is worth having both…

 

[Owen Smith]

Indeed, all DTS/Dolby streams have layers that can be peeled back like an onion, including DTS-HD Master Audio and Dolby TrueHD. So, the lossy "cores" of those streams ensure backwards compatibility with pre-lossless AVRs/TVs/etc. whether connected via HDMI, optical, or digital coaxial. Now, why then also include LPCM surround? Probably because there's space, and it's a guaranteed 1-to-1 copy of the surround master (assuming no authoring issues).

Dolby TrueHD does not have a lossy core. Dolby TrueHD is just MLP from DVD-A plus some meta data. What they did is mandate that if Dolby TrueHD is on the disc then there must also be a standard Dolby Digital track of the same audio so it can be played on old AVRs etc.

For films the LPCM on blu ray was because at one time some AVRs could play multi channel LPCM over HDMI but did not have DTS HD-MA or Dolby TrueHD decoders. So you either needed the BD player to convert those to multi channel LPCM (but that's not a mandatory requirement for players) or you needed LPCM as well on the disc. It's a legacy issue these days, BD films no longer include the LPCM partly because it uses a lot of disc space.

 

[JohnN]

Wondering if anyone has both Blu-Ray and SACD and compared them?
Debating if it is worth having both…

Same here. Wondering...

 

[paligap]

I finally listened to my SACD 5.1 of Animals. I love the clarity and separation of the instruments. The very few things that bothered me were the slight ambiance of Roger's voice on Pigs on the Wing part 1 & 2, a couple of small parts of guitar solo's that don't seem to have the impact they did on the original mix. Those things I'm sure I'll get over as I listen to it more. But one thing I need to try to fix (but not sure how) is the fluttering bass at a few spots during Pigs (Three Different Ones). It sounds awful. My first thought is changing the crossover but do I adjust it on my Oppo or on my sub? Or is there another solution? Does anyone else get the fluttering from P(3DO)?

I get the fluttering as well. It's annoying because the rest sounds so damn good.

I got the fluttering on my system that has two very capable 15 inch subs, but not on my system that has two more modest (at least I thought so) 12 inch subs. I've listened to it only twice, but I'll check it out to see if the pattern continues.

One other variable I'll check is that I got the fluttering when listening to the uncompressed 5.1 but not when listening to the DTS-HDMA.

 

[JohnN]

I've played all modes loud with no bass problems. Actually very smooth bass. Nice atmosphere, interesting use of the centre speaker.

 

[warp2600]

Wondering if anyone has both Blu-Ray and SACD and compared them?
Debating if it is worth having both…

When I play the Mch mix (on the same HT system comprising a SONY BD player, MARANTZ SR7001 AVR, Canton Chrono floorstanding and center speakers, Pioneer floorstanding rears, Dynavoice Thunder T12 closed active sub) always in Pure Direct mode because although I did the room correction calibration, my brain says I want the pure unaltered sound and my speakers are ideally placed, I cannot hear a difference between the BD and SACD. In Pure Direct mode the DSD bitstream is coverted directly to analog.
Now, I have a separate stereo system (LAMPIZATOR Atlantic TRP DAC/MARANTZ SA-14S1SE player, MARANTZ PM8005 integrated amp, Dynaudio Excite X18 speakers and the same Dynavoice sub that is also connected to the HT system) and the stereo DSD on the SACD blew me away. It was MUCH better than the LPCM stereo on the BD (mind you, I was unable to play the LPCM stereo on my stereo system because I would either need to rip the files, which I can't because I haven't got a BD drive for the computer, or I would need a very long coax cable. It may well be that the LPCM 192/24 files would also blow me away the same way if played on Dynaudio speakers through the Lampizator DAC or the MARANTZ player.

 

[DAC1961]

I've played all modes loud with no bass problems. Actually very smooth bass. Nice atmosphere, interesting use of the centre speaker.

When you folks state "fluttering" are you referring to what sounds like overhead aircraft, which I only have heard on Pigs, 3 different ones. I'm using a Martin Logan Dynamo 800 sub, crossing over my Revels at 80hz.

 

[Tres Discrete]

When I play the Mch mix (on the same HT system comprising a SONY BD player, MARANTZ SR7001 AVR, Canton Chrono floorstanding and center speakers, Pioneer floorstanding rears, Dynavoice Thunder T12 closed active sub) always in Pure Direct mode because although I did the room correction calibration, my brain says I want the pure unaltered sound and my speakers are ideally placed, I cannot hear a difference between the BD and SACD. In Pure Direct mode the DSD bitstream is coverted directly to analog.
Now, I have a separate stereo system (LAMPIZATOR Atlantic TRP DAC/MARANTZ SA-14S1SE player, MARANTZ PM8005 integrated amp, Dynaudio Excite X18 speakers and the same Dynavoice sub that is also connected to the HT system) and the stereo DSD on the SACD blew me away. It was MUCH better than the LPCM stereo on the BD (mind you, I was unable to play the LPCM stereo on my stereo system because I would either need to rip the files, which I can't because I haven't got a BD drive for the computer, or I would need a very long coax cable. It may well be that the LPCM 192/24 files would also blow me away the same way if played on Dynaudio speakers through the Lampizator DAC or the MARANTZ player.

Thanks.
Since I have the Blu-Ray, I suppose the only reason for me to get the SACD would be to get the new stereo mix on the CD layer…plus the cool packaging…maybe that’s enough to plunk down $35

 

[JohnN]

Thanks.
Since I have the Blu-Ray, I suppose the only reason for me to get the SACD would be to get the new stereo mix on the CD layer…plus the cool packaging…maybe that’s enough to plunk down $35

I need the SACD for another system with a Pioneer DV-563A player. Yeah, that's my excuse. lol BUY!

 

[cdheer]

Got a ship notice finally from the PF site (really Musicglue). Of course, it also says that there's no tracking and it could take anywhere from 7 to 6.02x10^23 days, so we'll see.

It arrived yesterday! Haven't had a chance to listen, but I've at least ripped it to my NAS.

 

[AYanguas]

@The Pink Floyd , @Mesozoic Mike , @paligap , Can you describe when (mm:ss) and how you notice the fluttering bass?

I can imagine it is when Waters plays the bass and make sweeping the frequency down. Then you notice the bass is moving from one room location to another, or something like that? Or changing the bass volume level as it sweeps?

That passages are similar as when you have a tool with bass test tone that sweeps progressively to lower frequencies to test your bass, bass management, crossovers, etc.

I don't notice any fluttering bass in my 5.1 summer house. Waiting to go to my main house with better equipment and test it.

 

[privateuniverse]

Some other interesting sales tidbits. Billboard reports that Animals sold 20,000 copies in the US last week:

8,500 on vinyl
6,000 on CD
4,500 on other physical formats (presumably the Blu-ray & SACD)
1,000 digital downloads

 

[~dave~~wave~]

@The Pink Floyd , @Mesozoic Mike , @paligap , Can you describe when (mm:ss) and how you notice the fluttering bass?

I can imagine it is when Waters plays the bass and make sweeping the frequency down. Then you notice the bass is moving from one room location to another, or something like that? Or changing the bass volume level as it sweeps?

That passages are similar as when you have a tool with bass test tone that sweeps progressively to lower frequencies to test your bass, bass management, crossovers, etc.

I don't notice any fluttering bass in my 5.1 summer house. Waiting to go to my main house with better equipment and test it.

Is this what's challenging the subs?
Post # 2,137 in this 117-page thread.
Please do try to keep up.

And below is the spectrum analysis on the lowest bass pedal note in Pigs...

That's a loud 32.7 Hz fundamental!

https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/fo...tions-out-in-september-2022.24798/post-649359

 

[splinter7]

Some other interesting sales tidbits. Billboard reports that Animals sold 20,000 copies in the US last week:

8,500 on vinyl
6,000 on CD
4,500 on other physical formats (presumably the Blu-ray & SACD)
1,000 digital downloads

Roughly, just short of a half a million dollar week based on Amazon prices (perhaps a little conservative if the SACD sales are higher)

 

[minimumtumbleweed]

Because plastic. The cardboard sleeve is from a renewable resource, possible at least partially recycled material. It makes sense and I am fine with it.

Hard to agree with you here. If I was going to throw it in the bin after taking the disc out then yeah, maybe cardboard is a better option. But in this case it's going to sit on my shelf pretty much indefinitely, so who cares? It's not going to contribute to the plastic waste issue for at least a few decades, and meanwhile the crummy cardboard packaging is mostly just a liability for the disc's integrity, as others have already mentioned.

 

[The Pink Floyd]

@The Pink Floyd , @Mesozoic Mike , @paligap , Can you describe when (mm:ss) and how you notice the fluttering bass?

I can imagine it is when Waters plays the bass and make sweeping the frequency down. Then you notice the bass is moving from one room location to another, or something like that? Or changing the bass volume level as it sweeps?

That passages are similar as when you have a tool with bass test tone that sweeps progressively to lower frequencies to test your bass, bass management, crossovers, etc.

I don't notice any fluttering bass in my 5.1 summer house. Waiting to go to my main house with better equipment and test it.

I have the SACD. I don't know about the BR as I won't get that until the deluxe version shows up at my door step.

I just played P(3DO) and it happens 5 times between 6:26 and 7:04. More specifically, 6:26 - 6:30, 6:33 - 6:38, 6:54 - 6:56, 6:58 - 7:00 and 7:02 - 7:04.