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Playing DSD Downloads on Oppo 100 and 200 Series Players

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grill

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I wish the EU Oppo models would be so priced as the US ones.
 

wavelength

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For whatever reason, the other day I decided to listen to the native DSD output from one of my SACDs in stereo. OK I'm not here to create a huge debate but I was blown away with the fidelity. Previously I had my Oppo 105 setup configured to convert DSD to PCM. But I could clearly hear the difference playing the native DSD. Oh I'm getting excited! But wait..downer...no signal processing is available for native DSD output. This means my Speaker Configuration menu is severely crippled - no trim level and no speaker distance setting. Trim I might be able to live without but no speaker distance setting is a multichannel killer. I'd have to place all my speakers the same distance from the listening position and there is no way I can do that.

So - all this great multichannel DSD stuff that is not playable for any setup that utilizes speaker distance settings. Is there an (affordable) answer for this predicament? I'm hoping someone will reply and say "of course there is you idiot. Don't you know about da, di, da (this)?"
 

bmoura

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For whatever reason, the other day I decided to listen to the native DSD output from one of my SACDs in stereo. OK I'm not here to create a huge debate but I was blown away with the fidelity. Previously I had my Oppo 105 setup configured to convert DSD to PCM. But I could clearly hear the difference playing the native DSD. Oh I'm getting excited! But wait..downer...no signal processing is available for native DSD output. This means my Speaker Configuration menu is severely crippled - no trim level and no speaker distance setting. Trim I might be able to live without but no speaker distance setting is a multichannel killer. I'd have to place all my speakers the same distance from the listening position and there is no way I can do that.

So - all this great multichannel DSD stuff that is not playable for any setup that utilizes speaker distance settings. Is there an (affordable) answer for this predicament? I'm hoping someone will reply and say "of course there is you idiot. Don't you know about da, di, da (this)?"
There may be some distance correction products that do correction in the analog domain. Haven't looked into that area.
 

ted_b

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First stupid question; can the 105 act as a multichannel USB dac? If so, the comments below are useful:

I use the exaSound e28 to play back 5.1 DSD files (DSF) in multichannel. I have also pointed folks to my Mytek stack here too, but that is more a proof of concept than anything (but it works fine :))

Anyway...when using Signalysts's wonderful HQPlayer playback software you can set channel levels and distance trims (delays) and process these while staying in DSD. For more info on HQPlayer you might want to peruse Jussi's manual here (see multiuchannel setup starting on page 21)
http://i-cat.biz/pdf/HQPlayer-manual.pdf

or go to the large (127 page and growing) HQPlayer forum thread here
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f11-software/hq-player-20293/

If the 105 is stereo only (as a USB dac) then you must either dispense with channel delays or convert to PCM. Are your speakers THAT far off (from equidistant)?

On the subject of channel trims, many analog multichannel preamps (like a Sony TAP-900ES, etc) do channel trims in analog, so that aspect is available.
 

bmoura

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When using Signalysts's wonderful HQPlayer playback software you can set channel levels and distance trims (delays) and process these while staying in DSD. For more info on HQPlayer you might want to peruse Jussi's manual here (see multiuchannel setup starting on page 21)
http://i-cat.biz/pdf/HQPlayer-manual.pdf

or go to the large (127 page and growing) HQPlayer forum thread here
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f11-software/hq-player-20293/

If the 105 is stereo only (as a USB dac) then you must either dispense with channel delays or convert to PCM. Are your speakers THAT far off (from equidistant)?

On the subject of channel trims, many analog multichannel preamps (like a Sony TAP-900ES, etc) do channel trims in analog, so that aspect is available.
Interesting!

I wonder if this capability, setting the channel trims and delays (alignment) in DSD, will make it to the Roon Labs software which is working on integrating HQ Player as a feature.
Hmm....
 

wavelength

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Brian and ted_b:
Thanks for the replies. I really hope something develops with DSD signal processing. Right now it all seems so expensive and/or complicated. My surrounds are 4' closer than my fronts (3.5' vs 7.5') so the distance is an issue. I'm trying to figure out a way to re-arrange my setup but it doesn't seem like it's going to be easy. Anyway, as far as I know, speaker distance is a pretty standard parameter for multichannel systems. Offering multichannel DSD with no practical and inexpensive options to set distances is not helpful. But I'm just starting down the DSD road. Who knows what good things will pop up.
 

ted_b

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Interesting!

I wonder if this capability, setting the channel trims and delays (alignment) in DSD, will make it to the Roon Labs software which is working on integrating HQ Player as a feature.
Hmm....
Brian, it would be useless if it doesn't. HQplayer's big claims to fame are DSD upsampling and DSD signal processing (convolution, delays, etc).
 

bmoura

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Brian and ted_b:
Thanks for the replies. I really hope something develops with DSD signal processing. Right now it all seems so expensive and/or complicated. My surrounds are 4' closer than my fronts (3.5' vs 7.5') so the distance is an issue. I'm trying to figure out a way to re-arrange my setup but it doesn't seem like it's going to be easy. Anyway, as far as I know, speaker distance is a pretty standard parameter for multichannel systems. Offering multichannel DSD with no practical and inexpensive options to set distances is not helpful. But I'm just starting down the DSD road. Who knows what good things will pop up.
HQ Player only costs $143. Sounds like a pretty cost effective solution to DSD Distance Compensation for listeners looking for that feature.
http://www.shareit.com/product.html?productid=300588325&backlink=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.signalyst.com%2Fwebshop.html
 

wavelength

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First stupid question; can the 105 act as a multichannel USB dac? If so, the comments below are useful:

I use the exaSound e28 to play back 5.1 DSD files (DSF) in multichannel. I have also pointed folks to my Mytek stack here too, but that is more a proof of concept than anything (but it works fine :))

Anyway...when using Signalysts's wonderful HQPlayer playback software you can set channel levels and distance trims (delays) and process these while staying in DSD. For more info on HQPlayer you might want to peruse Jussi's manual here (see multiuchannel setup starting on page 21)
http://i-cat.biz/pdf/HQPlayer-manual.pdf

or go to the large (127 page and growing) HQPlayer forum thread here
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f11-software/hq-player-20293/

If the 105 is stereo only (as a USB dac) then you must either dispense with channel delays or convert to PCM. Are your speakers THAT far off (from equidistant)?

On the subject of channel trims, many analog multichannel preamps (like a Sony TAP-900ES, etc) do channel trims in analog, so that aspect is available.
I easily get confused with all of the audio playback software discussions. Please assume I know nothing about this - because I don't. Obviously this whole thread is about playing multichannel dsd on the 105. So how would I utilize HQPlayer in this situation?
 

bmoura

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I easily get confused with all of the audio playback software discussions. Please assume I know nothing about this - because I don't. Obviously this whole thread is about playing multichannel dsd on the 105. So how would I utilize HQPlayer in this situation?
Let's step back a minute.

If you're playing music files (DSD and PCM) in Stereo or Multichannel via the USB ports on the Oppo 105, no third party music player software (like HQ Player) is used.
The playback is controlled by the software in the Oppo.

On the other hand, if you are playing Stereo music files via the DAC jack on the Oppo 105D - or if you are using a DAC (not the Oppo 105) - then you would be using a PC or Mac and music player software for playback.
That would allow you to use HQ Player, if desired. Or any other music player software (JRiver, Foobar, etc.)
 

wavelength

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Let's step back a minute.

If you're playing music files (DSD and PCM) in Stereo or Multichannel via the USB ports on the Oppo 105, no third party music player software (like HQ Player) is used.
The playback is controlled by the software in the Oppo.

On the other hand, if you are playing Stereo music files via the DAC jack on the Oppo 105D - or if you are using a DAC (not the Oppo 105) - then you would be using a PC or Mac and music player software for playback.
That would allow you to use HQ Player, if desired. Or any other music player software (JRiver, Foobar, etc.)
First, thanks Brian for the clarification. It's starting to make sense. So with my current 105 I'm not going to be able to adjust DSD speaker distances.

For the 105D is the USB DAC input stereo only? Truth is, stereo DSD is not a problem because the speaker distances for FL and FR are (in my system and likely 99% of listeners) the same.
 

bmoura

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First, thanks Brian for the clarification. It's starting to make sense. So with my current 105 I'm not going to be able to adjust DSD speaker distances.

For the 105D is the USB DAC input stereo only? Truth is, stereo DSD is not a problem because the speaker distances for FL and FR are (in my system and likely 99% of listeners) the same.
From what I have been told, the DAC input on the 105D is Stereo only. I don't have a 105D so I have no way to check.
 

wavelength

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From what I have been told, the DAC input on the 105D is Stereo only. I don't have a 105D so I have no way to check.
This whole DSD multichannel thing has to be, or will be, a huge sticking point for the growth of MC DSD downloads. I asked Oppo about this and their response was:
"The player will not support this due to a lack of processing power for real time analog conversion and processing." Seriously? Processing power? Processing power is always being improved. Surely there will be enough processing power to handle DSD in the not-to-distant future.
 

bmoura

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This whole DSD multichannel thing has to be, or will be, a huge sticking point for the growth of MC DSD downloads. I asked Oppo about this and their response was:
"The player will not support this due to a lack of processing power for real time analog conversion and processing." Seriously? Processing power? Processing power is always being improved. Surely there will be enough processing power to handle DSD in the not-to-distant future.
I assume Oppo means the lack of processing power on the 105D to support Multichannel DSD 128 playback.
The Oppo 105 I own plays Multichannel DSD 64 and FLAC files back just fine via the USB ports.

Another thing to mention is that music file playback features were added to the Oppo 103 and 105 disc players very late in their development cycle.
After the 103 and 105 disc players came out, Oppo has released products (HA-1 and HA-2 headphone amp/DACs along with the Limited Edition BDP-105DJPL disc player in Japan) that offer Stereo DSD 256 playback.

It's very logical to assume that the next generation of Oppo disc players with 4K Blu-Ray will also support Stereo DSD 256 playback and perhaps Multichannel DSD 128 and 256 playback.
That would be in addition to Multichannel DSD 64 and FLAC playback that the current Oppo 103 and 105 products handle.

And of course there are non-Oppo products that support Multichannel DSD - at bit rates of DSD 64 and above.
As Ted_B notes, Multichannel DSD 128 and 256 is working fine here with the exaSound e28 DAC.

Time will tell what Oppo brings to the Multichannel party in the future.

Stay tuned....
 

GOS

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I assume Oppo means the lack of processing power on the 105D to support Multichannel DSD 128 playback.
The Oppo 105 I own plays Multichannel DSD 64 and FLAC files back just fine via the USB ports.

Another thing to mention is that music file playback features were added to the Oppo 103 and 105 disc players very late in their development cycle.
After the 103 and 105 disc players came out, Oppo has released products (HA-1 and HA-2 headphone amp/DACs along with the Limited Edition BDP-105DJPL disc player in Japan) that offer Stereo DSD 256 playback.

It's very logical to assume that the next generation of Oppo disc players with 4K Blu-Ray will also support Stereo DSD 256 playback and perhaps Multichannel DSD 128 and 256 playback.
That would be in addition to Multichannel DSD 64 and FLAC playback that the current Oppo 103 and 105 products handle.

And of course there are non-Oppo products that support Multichannel DSD - at bit rates of DSD 64 and above.
As Ted_B notes, Multichannel DSD 128 and 256 is working fine here with the exaSound e28 DAC.

Time will tell what Oppo brings to the Multichannel party in the future.

Stay tuned....
Drooling...my guess is Oppo won't disappoint...and I will gladly upgrade!!!!
 

bmoura

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Brian, it would be useless if it doesn't. HQplayer's big claims to fame are DSD upsampling and DSD signal processing (convolution, delays, etc).
True. Although I hear a lot more on the web about HQ Player's upsampling DSD and PCM to DSD 256 than it's signal processing in DSD!
 
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