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Pure Music - Chase

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fizzywiggs41

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-don't think Q8'S exsisted.



Now it's up to a good-great-and well equipped ($$€€££¥¥), quadraphile like you my fave SQ and CD-4 collector and BBQ to ferret out those SQ encoded cds which are now issued, because the Encoded Master exsists and is finally being re used.
Hopefully not many were purged (by the forces of evil-the anti quads that we had to tolerate in the 70's)--like a book burning of Orwellian nightmarish proportion!!
Sorry but that situation gets my Ire up!!



looking forward to the future of more SQ QUAD surprises,

Fizzy-quadluvem-addiction-and no apologies 4it.
 

fizzywiggs41

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Yes, u r correct.fredioquadio

Post fukup, courtesy my wifi timed out and lost half, and shit......could not recover it all.

so very sorry, though frustrating as hell!!! Recomposed what I could though.



fizz
 

fredblue

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Absolutely definitive as far as I'm concerned, I'm afraid, the Blu-Spec CD is not SQ encoded, despite the pretty little OBI with the "SQ SX '74" logo on it that comes with this CD.

Comparison waveform pics (showing the SQ LP decoded by the Surround Master SQ vinyl unit and the Blu-Spec CD "decoded" with the exact same gear & processes) to follow.
 

fredblue

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Track 2 (Run Back To Mama) Sony Japan Blu-Spec CD (EICP 20088, DSD mastered, released Sept 2012)



Track 2 (Run Back To Mama) Epic SQ Quadraphonic LP USA (EQ 32572, Quad remix engineered by Murray Allen, Supervised by Frank Rand, released 1974)

 

fredblue

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Now I accept its all a bit of a fudge looking at waveforms of SQ decoded into 4-channels... and these are not level matched, they are exactly as they came off each disc, top one CD, bottom one LP.. you can 'see' the CD is louder for a start.. but forget that for a moment, in the next post I will show you those areas in this particular track where there are specific mix differences when you try and decode each CD and LP into Quad using the Surround Master SQ unit.
 

fredblue

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At this point (approx 2m 10s into the track on the SQ LP) there is a 15-ish second guitar solo, which should emanate (predominantly rather than hard/discrete, this is SQ after all) from the Rear Left.. from the LP it does so and you can just about make it out with the waveforms as seen in the 5th track down, highlighted in grey;



Here you can see when attempting to decode via SQ the Blu-Spec CD you get no such panning with the short guitar solo (in grey, look closely at the Rear Left channel info, 5th track down);

 

fredblue

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Still focussing on Run Back To Mama, the last 30 seconds approx of the track has vocal refrains of a chorus singing "Run Back To Mama" repeatedly til the track fades out to the end.

Here is the Blu-spec CD when SQ decoded, with that segment highlighted in grey (in this instance all those vocals are in the Front channels):



Here is the SQ LP when decoded (in this instance all the "Run Back To Mama" refrains are panned hard to the Rear channels):



The waveforms are far from distinct enough to tell the whole story in this instance.. however in my next post you will find 2 x 30-second MultiCh sample clips for this segment of the track, one for the SQ LP and one for the Blu-spec CD, which when you play them back through your computer will enable you to hear the difference between the two formats when decoded.
 

fizzywiggs41

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Makes me wonder,

How the hell did they F**k up a simple transfer like that ? Amateurs.



When you have experience in SQ encoding like me with my encoder, and it's so easy to encode with sources..... WOW !!
-and this is or should be a simple already SQ encoded tape recorded to a cd. Absolutely ignorant imo.


btw fred-who-luvs-his-quad......

You should put an ENCODER SQ or QS , on your future shopping list of all things quad.:D
I had a lot of fun with my two (now one) encoding Discrete quad CD-4 lps and Q8's to to a simple 2ch tape.
Still have most of my transfers on cassettes, plus you can also run a stereo disc and bend or arc that signal to a quad matrix type of encode.
Lotz a fun, buddy.:D
 

fredblue

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Makes me wonder,

How the hell did they F**k up a simple transfer like that ? Amateurs.



When you have experience in SQ encoding like me with my encoder, and it's so easy to encode with sources..... WOW !!
-and this is or should be a simple already SQ encoded tape recorded to a cd. Absolutely ignorant imo.


btw fred-who-luvs-his-quad......

You should put an ENCODER SQ or QS , on your future shopping list of all things quad.:D
I had a lot of fun with my two (now one) encoding Discrete quad CD-4 lps and Q8's to to a simple 2ch tape.
Still have most of my transfers on cassettes, plus you can also run a stereo disc and bend or arc that signal to a quad matrix type of encode.
Lotz a fun, buddy.:D
It is kinda bizarre Fizzy, if that's what the producers of the Blu-spec CD were going for.. the biggest disappointment is that I forked out for the bloody Japanese CD like many of us here did, Linda included and it strikes me it is not the SQ, despite it having the SQ logo and all on it.

One thing I did notice (for the first time.. sometimes these things only occur to me years after the event.. in this instance it was when comparing the facsimile of the rear sleeve art of the Blu-spec CD to the SQ LP sleeve itself.. the CD has the Stereo artwork with the Stereo credits, whereas of course the SQ LP has the unique set of Quad remix credits on the rear sleeve artwork.. hmm.. this is one of those instances where I wish something I'd bought from Japan didn't have the OBI, its misleading! How saucy! :D )

Don't think I'm ready for encoding anything yet, too much of a newbie at decoding.. :eek: ..but never say never! :upthumb

Oh and this whole experience has now put me right off getting that DSD remastered 2012 edition of They Only Come Out At Night (which some helpful soul on Wikipedia says is the Quad..) forgive me for being so skeptical but can you really see that being the case, Fizzy? If I see it cheap I'll still get it (I mean, who doesn't need a 5th version of an album they never play anymore on CD!?) wocka.. etc.! :p
 

sbrom

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That's some impressive waveform analysis!

So the Blu-spec Pure Music cd is not SQ.

If this has been determined already, I apologize...are the Pure Music tracks from the BGO triple-album SQ encoded, or is that still an open question?
 

fredblue

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ps. I'm already aware the 30-second clips are actually 36 seconds and 38 seconds precisely, respectively.. but thank you for letting me know that you know too.. :upthumb
(I tried to make them as close as dammit to 30 seconds a piece of "Pure Music" and that's how it worked out at the end of the outro etc.. ho ho ho.. ah well, you know how it is, different mixes, different masterings, different media.. blah dee blah! :p )
 

fredblue

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That's some impressive waveform analysis!

So the Blu-spec Pure Music cd is not SQ.

If this has been determined already, I apologize...are the Pure Music tracks from the BGO triple-album SQ encoded, or is that still an open question?
Thanks! (Its important to me.. :D )

Actually, let me just get serious for a moment (its gonna take some resolve, please bear with me!) this album is very dear to me.. I absolutely love it.. and once I found out there was a Quad of it, I went about looking for a decent version of the Quad.. without success.

afaik, there is/was a conversion from Q8.. but I couldn't do torrents at the time or something like that prevented me from hearing it (memory hazy sorry) so that may be "the one" and if I heard it I might be able to stop searching.. but I've never heard it, so that's that.

Bizarrely, I suspect the iTunes download may possibly be the SQ (as I remember it doing a lot of fun stuff thru PLII Music years ago, used to play it that way a lot lot lot!) but I can't process or rather decode it at the moment as having some problems trying to decode from files on the computer since installing Loopback on my Mac to do SQ/QS etc on the fly and monitor it in in 4-channels rather than have to do everything in 2 channels encoded and then all over again in 4-channels decoded (life feels way too short for the sake of declicking and all that, the transfers will just have to be how they are going to be, they are for my ears anyway.. so upshot is I am very loathe to start ripping everything apart again thats connected to the computer now that I've got it working the way I want it just to decode some files I know I can do from the SQ LPs etc and that those LPs are definitely the Quad, it won't be up for grabs what they are with the SQ vinyl etc, like the iTunes version I have, it may have done a lot in PLII but maybe that could be an indicator of nothing?!).

Anyway, after all that blathering, in an ideal world, Audio Fidelity or Dutton Vocalion or some other such enterprising label would do Pure Music Quad on Surround SACD and I could pack it in looking for alternatives altogether! :D

Ps. I don't know about the BGO CDs of Chase/Pure Music (but I have several BGO CDs of albums that have Quad mixes, including Edgar Winter, Jose Feliciano, Lou Rawls, The Isley Brothers, etc.. and none of them, like I mean not one, I tried them all, did anything thru the SQ Surround Master :(

A thought occurs.. when I get the next PM, as I have had a few already, asking me "why are you bothering to do all these old SQ records thru the Surround Master?" I should just direct them to this thread.. I'll say it on the open forum now and then that can be the end of the matter afaic.. once I found out the Surround Master with the SQ vinyl mod was able to decode SQ records so well, I set about doing them all chiefly because (other than the brilliant things by Romanotrax, AoQ etc.. and the stuff AF and a few others have managed to get out over the years, my SQ LP decodes have been the most reliable, surefire way I could get to hear a lot of these old Quads, especially the Jazz and the Soul/R&B. Ok, so its hobbled by SQ, its stymied by LP, its mediocre sound due to my equipment and the state of some of the LPs but they are Quad, no arguments.. I don't have to hang about for anybody including the record labels, to do it.. I can enjoy them here and now while the going's good! Phew! Glad I got that cleared up, as the patient said to the Doctor! :p

Where were we? Oh yeah.. Chase SQ on the BGO's, sbrom? No idea mate, sorry! :eek:
 

sbrom

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Thanks!

In previous posts you've given enough description of what the quad PM should sound like, so when I get the BGO CD, and once I've figured out how to decode it (with software I hope), I'll know if it is the "real SQ deal"

Steve.

Thanks! (Its important to me.. :D )

Actually, let me just get serious for a moment (its gonna take some resolve, please bear with me!) this album is very dear to me.. I absolutely love it.. and once I found out there was a Quad of it, I went about looking for a decent version of the Quad.. without success.

afaik, there is/was a conversion from Q8.. but I couldn't do torrents at the time or something like that prevented me from hearing it (memory hazy sorry) so that may be "the one" and if I heard it I might be able to stop searching.. but I've never heard it, so that's that.

Bizarrely, I suspect the iTunes download may possibly be the SQ (as I remember it doing a lot of fun stuff thru PLII Music years ago, used to play it that way a lot lot lot!) but I can't process or rather decode it at the moment as having some problems trying to decode from files on the computer since installing Loopback on my Mac to do SQ/QS etc on the fly and monitor it in in 4-channels rather than have to do everything in 2 channels encoded and then all over again in 4-channels decoded (life feels way too short for the sake of declicking and all that, the transfers will just have to be how they are going to be, they are for my ears anyway.. so upshot is I am very loathe to start ripping everything apart again thats connected to the computer now that I've got it working the way I want it just to decode some files I know I can do from the SQ LPs etc and that those LPs are definitely the Quad, it won't be up for grabs what they are with the SQ vinyl etc, like the iTunes version I have, it may have done a lot in PLII but maybe that could be an indicator of nothing?!).

Anyway, after all that blathering, in an ideal world, Audio Fidelity or Dutton Vocalion or some other such enterprising label would do Pure Music Quad on Surround SACD and I could pack it in looking for alternatives altogether! :D

Ps. I don't know about the BGO CDs of Chase/Pure Music (but I have several BGO CDs of albums that have Quad mixes, including Edgar Winter, Jose Feliciano, Lou Rawls, The Isley Brothers, etc.. and none of them, like I mean not one, I tried them all, did anything thru the SQ Surround Master :(

A thought occurs.. when I get the next PM, as I have had a few already, asking me "why are you bothering to do all these old SQ records thru the Surround Master?" I should just direct them to this thread.. I'll say it on the open forum now and then that can be the end of the matter afaic.. once I found out the Surround Master with the SQ vinyl mod was able to decode SQ records so well, I set about doing them all chiefly because (other than the brilliant things by Romanotrax, AoQ etc.. and the stuff AF and a few others have managed to get out over the years, my SQ LP decodes have been the most reliable, surefire way I could get to hear a lot of these old Quads, especially the Jazz and the Soul/R&B. Ok, so its hobbled by SQ, its stymied by LP, its mediocre sound due to my equipment and the state of some of the LPs but they are Quad, no arguments.. I don't have to hang about for anybody including the record labels, to do it.. I can enjoy them here and now while the going's good! Phew! Glad I got that cleared up, as the patient said to the Doctor! :p

Where were we? Oh yeah.. Chase SQ on the BGO's, sbrom? No idea mate, sorry! :eek:
 

fredblue

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Thanks!

In previous posts you've given enough description of what the quad PM should sound like, so when I get the BGO CD, and once I've figured out how to decode it (with software I hope), I'll know if it is the "real SQ deal"

Steve.
You're most welcome, Steve :)

The 1st track should have round the room trumpet approx 1 min 30 secs mark (slow pan that goes from Front Left to Front Right to Rear Right to Rear Left and back to Front Left.. etc..) and a number of round the room swirly phasey synths.. 2nd track as described (listen out for guitar noodling in Rear Left.. approx 2:10 - 2:30... "Come back to mama" vocals in the rears for the last 30 seconds of the track) beyond that.. well, it's all delicious gravy! YUM! Enjoy! (oh and please do let us all know how you get on with the BGO CDs etc.!) :p
 

fizzywiggs41

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Seeds of doubt, no doubt.

When u get the BGO disc , yes let your ears demo the disc.
I had multiple doubts about, but not now.

On those Jap discs.......Someone obviously likes to Scam Quadraphiles.That shit happens, but should never discourage everyone.
The almighty buck or yen rules that logic.!!
What I can't wrap my head around is why, why go to so much trouble with the packaging?
Unless what we have is something like;

A recall from CBS of all encoded tape occurred in the late 70's early 80's(scenario #1)

An order was issued to "dispose" of all encoded tape(scenario #2)


maybe both.
 
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