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QS albums

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quadgdiaz

Guest
hi Quadzzzilla

the David Bowie beta tape is now available in DVD with Dolby Digital but the sound really sucks. luckely the stereo DVD sound track is SQ encoded so you can play it thru your tate. thanks Gerardo;)
 

quadtrade

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CX records Wow,difficult to find these days and those days ..... anyone else have any out there. Like to exchange info to establish a list. I have some i found in Seattle, sorry Cai, many years ago - and the lack of info in guides is making sure they are not worth much. Gotta write those record guide authors. It would be good to know what is issued though. I have a decoder too, guess i gotta listen again to a few. Tad
 
F

Flaquad

Guest
I agree with Cai that at least some of the ABC LPs that indicate that they are Quad compatible are just stereo. Several years ago a very knowledgeable record dealer was thrilled to tell me that he found a quad Jan & Dean "Gotta Take That One Last Ride" 2 LP set on United Artists from 1974 for me. He told me the liner notes indicated it was in quad. Of course I was excited to hear about a previously unknown quad release. However,when I read the liner notes I realized in all probability it was intended to be a joke. The liner notes reads in part: "This Quazi-Moto-Monaural Recording is Compatible With Both Your Standard Quadrophonic Or Tetrahedral Sysyems. Reviewers:No Negative Reviews Please!...". Likewise, I think some of the ABC "Compatible Quadraphonic" LPs are compatible only in a technical sense and were intended to mislead consumers.
I also have doubts about many of the latter Ovation releases which are in "Sector 4 Stereophonic Sound" . Mark Anderson's Quad Discography lists these titles as single inventory QS releases but I remain skeptical. Here is what the back cover of one of them reads: "This Recording Features OVATION RECORDS NEW SECTOR 4 Recording Process Which Combines Exclusive Recording And Remixing Techniques With Advanced Design Computerized Master Cutting, and represents The 'State-Of Art' in Compatible Multiple Channel STEREOPHONIC SOUND".
I have no idea what all that is supposed to mean but there is nothing to indicate it is QS encoded. Earlier Ovation releases were clearly marked QS.

Has anyone ever seen a quad copy of the CLIMAX BLUES BAND's Stamp Album ? This is supposed to be a single inventory QS release. I have seen many copies of this LP over the years but never saw one that indicated it was quad.

Tom in FL.
 

Malcolm2010

Senior Member
Since 2002/2003
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Dec 9, 2002
Messages
294
Location
Durham, England
I have the Climax blues band stamp album, both on LP and CD. I too thought it was QS encoded, but it fares no better than any stereo source when played through my tate or QSD-2. I live in England, so maybe the US version was single release quad, but certainly not the UK one.

:(
Malcolm
 

larryclifton

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Messages
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Regarding Ovation, the "Sector 4" releases are QS-encoded. When Ovation first introduced this notation for its quadraphonic recordings in 1974, it called it "Vector 4" and even released an elaborate demonstration record (numbered OVQS/4000) with the QS logo prominently displayed on the jacket. Ovation started new numbering systems for its albums with the introduction of "Vector 4".

The first in the 1700 series, Bonnie Koloc/At Her Best (OV-1701) displays the QS logo on the jacket below the description of "Sector 4" that Flaquad quotes. (Note that the notation changed from "Vector 4" to "Sector 4", probably because of a trademark conflict.) The same description without the QS logo appears on the first LP in Ovation's 1800 series, Henry Franklin/Blue Lights (OV-1801), which contains recordings previously released on Franklin's Black Jazz recordings that were explicitly identified as QS. Black Jazz was a part of Ovation.

I believe the Bonnie Koloc album marked the last use of the QS logo on Ovation's albums, but the "Compatible Multiple Channel STEREOPHONIC SOUND" description appeared on some 30 subsequent Ovation releases into 1977, after quad had fallen on hard times. As a musician and record producer, Dick Schory, president of Ovation, was commited to multi-channel recording, but his, like other companies, could not ignore the common record store practice of segregating quad records in a special section where only quad enthusiasts would find them. So, he obscured this feature in the later releases.

Because of Schory's commitment to quad, I suspect that Ovation continued to QS-encode its recordings even after it dropped the "Sector 4" notation. However, it is true that Ovation's four-channel mixes were very conservative, so playing these does not provide the persuasive punch of an SQ recording like Santana's Abraxas.

The Impulse "compatible stereo/quad" recordings share the same conservative approach to engineering. Nevertheless, they, too, are are definitely QS-encoded. Ed Michel produced many of these and I recall someone reporting that his motto at the time was "Have encoder, will travel". The notes on many Impulse quad albums identify the "Standard Matrix" as the encoding system. But, QS commonly went by the similar name "Regular Matrix", and on the third Gato Barbieri LP ("Chapter Three: Viva Emiliano Zapata", ASD-9279), the credits acknowledge "Sansui's Messrs. Nakiyama, Mauroi and Lebow". Jerry Lebow was Sansui's lead PR guy in the U.S. for QS. Furthermore, the notes on the fourth Gato Barbieri album ("Chapter Four: Alive in New York", ASD-9303), one of the last quad releases from Impulse, explicitly identify the encoding system as the "QS Matrix".

I suspect that both Dick Schory and Ed Michel were attempting to make recordings that would recreate the performance, not dazzle the listener with surround pyrotechnics. Of course, the wonder of matrix decoders is that they often produce some pretty nice surround effects from stereo recordings, so it's almost impossible to prove by listening that conservatively-mixed quad recordings are actually encoded. I still like 'em, if for no other reason than that they introduced me to artists and types of music that otherwise I would have missed.

Regarding Climax Blues Band's "Stamp Album", Schwann listed it as a quad album in 1975, and that usually meant that the record label advised Schwann that it was quad. In addition, Sansui PR releases and announcements in "Billboard" identified it as quad. But, like the Ovation and Impulse releases, its mix does not offer the convincing evidence of spectacular surround effects.

Larry
 
F

Flaquad

Guest
Larry, thank you for shedding light on the Ovation & Impulse releases. Very informative.
Tom
 

Cai Campbell

In Remembrance
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Yes indeed, thanks Larry! I don't doubt that the Ovation releases are indeed QS encoded. Although the music isn't always my cup-of-tea, the quad experience with Ovation disks has always been unquestionable. Also, I do agree that at least some of ABC's compatible stereo/quadraphonic releases are indeed quad. These would include the Gato Barbieri releases you mentioned, which sound quit nice.

However, despite your expertise and depth of knowledge in the field, I still must question the bulk of ABC's compatible stereo/quadraphonic releases. I wish I could mention some specific titles at this point, but I would really need to go back and cull through the records to refresh my memory. I will make an attempt to do this since I do feel it is a worthwhile endeavor, and if nothing else, might lead to an interesting discussion.

Assuming all of ABC's compatible releases were QS encoded, one must further question "how and from what source?" I really doubt that many of these releases were encoded from multi-track masters. There just is not enough (if any) discrete information coming from the rears.

Even on conservatively mixed quad LP's, it is usually pretty easy to identify the approach that the engineer is using to get a desired result (ambience in the rears, added echo/reverb/delay in the rears, SOMETHING!) It's hard for me to describe, but sometimes I will just sit there and shake my head and say to myself, "you know, this just ain't quad". I mean, not even BAD quad, just NOT quad.

So, unless the approach is dual stereo with the rears dropped a few dB then pumped through a matrix encoder, then I don't see how many of these "compatible" titles can be called quad at all. And, if this is the approach that was taken (which often is the only conclusion I can come to) then the obvious question comes: Why bother?

But, like you say, it is often impossible to tell the difference between a conservatively mixed matrix recording and a straight-ahead stereo mix synthesized with a quad decoder. It is this fact that I find maddening. I wish that matrix decoders came with a little light, kind of like on a demodulator, that indicated that the format in question has been detected. Certainly the encoding process must leave some sort of signature in the audio signal that can be detected and reported back. It has always confounded me that nobody ever developed such a device.

 

larryclifton

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Virginia
Well, Cai, with your suspicion that some of the Impulse compatible stereo/quad releases were not produced from multi-track masters you are on to something. For example, the album notes for John Coltrane/Interstellar Space (ASD-9277) explicitly state:

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>"The recordings heard here were originally recorded stereophonically [on February 27, 1967]. The two-track masters were retransferred and reprocessed by means of the Standard Matrix system for fully compatible stereo and derived-quadraphonic reproduction, and should provide an exceptional listening experience when heard on any high-quality playback or broadcast system."[/quote]

Similarly, the jacket for John Coltrane/Concert in Japan (AS-9246-2) includes the following note:

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>"The concert was originally recorded monaurally [on July 22, 1966] for radio broadcast. The master heard here can be especially interesting when heard through matrix quadraphonic/stereo playback equipment."[/quote]

Nothing on the outside of either of these jackets declares that the LPs inside are quadraphonic. In both cases the information about quad appears in small print in the album notes. Therefore, I don't think Impulse intended to mislead consumers as mentioned in an earlier post. Instead I believe that the engineer and producer, Ed Michel in both cases, was experimenting with the possibilities of enhancing stereo and even mono recordings for surround playback and wanted to alert listeners to give it a try.

Amazingly, I did catch these for "QUAD Incorporated" and described them not as "QS" but as "QS enhanced from a stereo source" and "from a mono source". Offhand, I don't recall any others from Impulse like these.

To further support Impulse's credibility, the company seemed to take care to indicate when an album contained a mixture of stereo and quad recordings. On "The Drums" (ASH-9272-3), for example, a comment at the end of the notes states:

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>"The selections on Side Six were mixed by means of the Standard Matrix system for fully compatible stereo/quadraphonic reproduction."[/quote]

All the remaining recordings were stereo.

The credits on Milt Jackson/The Impulse Years (ASH-9282-2) used a footnote to distinguish the quad from the stereo selections. The credits flagged each quad selection with an asterisk and in the accompanying footnote stated:

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>"These tracks were mixed by means of the Standard Matrix system for fully compatible stereo and quadraphonic reproduction."[/quote]

It appears that Ed Michel did not attempt to enhance or encode every project from that era. He produced John Coltrane/The Africa Brass Sessions, Vol.2 (AS-9273), which Impulse released after "Concert in Japan" and before "Interstellar Space", but it contains no mention of quad.

Add to this the following facts: The "compatible stereo/quad" notice appeared only on the record labels (Charlie Haden/Liberation Music Orchestra) or on the inside of gatefold jackets (Keith Jarrett/Fort Yawuh) of many Impulse recordings. When the notice did appear on the outside of the jacket, it certainly was not prominent.

So what was Impulse's motivation? I believe just to report a technical fact. Could be that Ed Michel had a sound in mind that just is not very satisfying, but I'm still convinced that the LPs are QS-encoded.

By the way, while researching this information, I tripped across my long-forgotten copy of the QS-encoded Alice Coltrane LP "Eternity" on the Warner Brothers record label. Yes, Warner Brothers! Can you guess the name of the recording engineer? Though nothing on my copy even remotely hints that it is encoded, Warner Brothers must have sanctioned its release as a quad LP since the Schwann catalog listed it as quad.

Larry
 

Marcsten

300 Club - QQ All-Star
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By God Larry, you are a font of info! A Warner QS! It sounds like some of the impulse releases are akin to my claimed QS release of Nat King Cole. Not mono, but derived therefrom. Keep it coming, Larry!
Marc
 
C

ccm0114

Guest
I have several dbx LPs. Some jazz, classical, and rock. One of them is an Eric Clapton two-disc set. I also have the dbx 224 encoder/decoder which I use to play the LPs, as well as archive some stuff on reel-to-reel. As for the sound, mainly I can say that these records come out sounding like very clean recordings. Of course, just like always, what you put in is what you get out. Just like CDs, some masters just don't have the dynamic range that they could have used. So, in effect these dbx discs sound just as good as analog-mastered CDs (but not digitally mastered ones). Also, I believe that dbx discs generally used virgin vinyl, to get rid of any pop/click issues.
 

larryclifton

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Location
Virginia
Since I cited Ed Michel so many times in my previous posts, today it occurred to me that I should see what information the Web might reveal about him. My Google search found his own Web site at www.edmicheljazzproducer.com/.

At that site Mr. Michel provides a list of the recordings he has produced. He thoughtfully identifies those he mixed for quadraphonic playback. The list includes several I did not know about:

Dave Brubeck Quartet/25th Anniversary Reunion, Horizon SP-715
Dave Brubeck and Paul Desmond/1975: The Duets, Horizon SP-703
Ornette Coleman/Dancing in Your Head, Horizon SP-721
John Coltrane/The Africa Brass Sessions, Vol.2, Impulse AS-9273
John Coltrane/Live in Seattle, Impulse AS-9202-2
Sonny Fortune/Awakening, Horizon SP-704
Sonny Fortune/Waves Of Dreams, Horizon SP-712
Ahmad Jamal/Outertimeinnerspace, Impulse AS-9226
Thad Jones/Mel Lewis Orchestra/Suite for Pops, Horizon SP-701

The list includes the Alice Coltrane/Infinity LP on Warner Brothers that I mentioned in my previous post, so that adds to the evidence that it is QS-encoded. It also indicates that the John Coltrane LP "The Africa Brass Sessions, Vol.2" that I identified as stereo is actually quad. My copy contains no notice that it is quad, but neither does the Alice Coltrane LP.

There are other differences in his information and mine. For example, the jacket of my copy of Sun Ra/Pathways to Unknown Worlds (Impulse ASD-9298 ) identifies it as "Compatible Stereo/Quadraphonic", but Mr. Michel's list does not.

Regardless, Mr. Michel has clearly taken pains to keep track of the recordings he has produced and especially which he mixed for quadraphonic playback. That nails it for me that the Impulse quad LPs are genuine surround sound recordings.

Incidentally, the list identifies the CD releases of a number of the recordings. I would not assume that these are quad, too.

Larry


 

Cai Campbell

In Remembrance
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Seattle, WA
Wow, thanks Larry, that is some great information! Now I'll have to track down those LP's and give them a listen. It's nice to get the story "straight from the horse's mouth", so to speak.

 

jaybird100

1K Club - QQ Shooting Star
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By God Larry, you are a font of info! A Warner QS! It sounds like some of the impulse releases are akin to my claimed QS release of Nat King Cole. Not mono, but derived therefrom. Keep it coming, Larry!
Marc
Warner was about to release their quad LP's with QS until Brad Miller, of Mobile Fidelity, convinced them to go CD-4 instead by threatening to pull the Mystic Moods releases from Warner's labels if they went with a matrix system. The Warner QS pressing Larry mentioned was probably a test release.
 

MidiMagic

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2010
Messages
294
I hate to tell you after all of these years, but turn that decode mode switch to PHASE MATRIX and decode all of the SQ you want.

Also, Vox made many QS classical albums.
 
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