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Quadio titles from Rhinohandmade?

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neil wilkes

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But they have worked really hard at trying to stop people from buying their product..for the best part of 10 years they've been brickwall limiting most of their stereo cd's...it was amazing hearing the general decline in sound with every monkees reissue...comparing the same cd title from years before to their latest offering...sonically worse but with more bonus tracks seems to be their favourite thing to do.....I drew the line for remastered reissues in stereo when I heard their reissue of Bee Gees greatest...it was simply abyssmal
You have hit one of the 2 nails right on the head here.
The decline & fall of CD sales is, I believe, closely tied to 2 factors.
1 - the decline in quality of the CD, with earlier discs having headroom and dynamic range and modern titles having single figure DR figures (Metallica for one but even KT Tunstall's last album was butchered in mastering so badly it is literally unlistenable on a HiFi system). Metallica had dynamic range of 3 dB, for fucks sake!
2 - the decline in artist development.
This cannot be overstated, as it is tied in with the rise of the leveraged corporate buyout, coupled with tax rules that allow hostile takeovers and the cost of the takeover put back onto the bought out company as a tax break on the debt! This took all the cash, so that was it for development and with no artist support & development there will be no future at all - even the live industry is dying now because nobody except established acts can make money touring and they are all aging now.

Brickwalling is just as bad in the UK too - see the comment above about KT Tunstall - and again the problem is this misconception that "louder = better = more sales" when it blatantly does not. I have honestly lost traclk of the number of CD I have returned as they are unlistenable, and as I am forced to buy online (no more record stores thanks to globalization and corporate tax dodging where UK stores cannot match box shifters as they are all based outside UK and not subject to VAT, even though the " head office" is usually a name plaque at a solicitors office, with all discs being shipped from warehouses in the UK yet still they pay no VAT.) there is no way to audition in advance so I have to trust to luck & return the crap.
Frankly, I suspect most people cannot be bothered so stopped buying instead.

Yet people will buy quality product. The claims (todays news in the UK is a disaster - see thread elsewhere) that piracy is killing music is so far wrong it is not funny - the industry is killing itself with shitty product.
 

Quadwreck

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Why would a record company stop a division from something that actually sold and made money, when the whole industry is going down the tubes because people are not buying discs anymore.

It's very hard to understand.............
Record companies are mostly run by people with no interest in music, their primary consideration is what will benefit their own immediate profit. Warner cut positions in Rhino as part of an overall strategy to improve their bottom line on paper to appeal more to potential buyers when they were for sale. It's all about them.
 

Quad Linda

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RIP Quadio? OQG, there's the answer. The link is gone and Quadio is dead. Or, did some genius just hit the wrong computer key?

Linda
Yeah, it's as simple as that, but I guess the Record Companies don't want to make money. Look here, unless I missed it, someone removed Rhino's "What is Quadio" link (it's on the Best of Aretha Franklin Quadraphonic page after "read more"): http://www.rhino.com/global/what-quad
 

Q-Eight

2K Club - QQ Super Nova
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Magic 8-ball sez: The lack of postings on here from John @ Rhino, the deletion of the "What is Quad?" page at Rhino.com..... put a fork in it, Sparky. It's done. Which is a shame. Remember how excited we got when the Chicago Quadio release had a silly little notation "Quadio series overseen by...." ? I guess two constitutes a series now.

Much like the Quadly days of yore, I wonder what was ready to come down the pipe....
 

DaneelOlivaw

300 Club - QQ All-Star
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Nov 27, 2006
Messages
304
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Texas
Well this sucks.

I recently bought a new receiver, a little Pioneer VSX-521, after my Technics SA-DA8 started acting wiggy about 3 years ago and retired it to the closet. But because of the severe lack of quality rock/pop surround music titles since 2006, I was debating on whether or not to keep my "full range" Pioneer bookshelves (equipped with an 8" ported woofer that reach to 45Hz) that I use for rear channels in my system. Since they do not fit well into my small living room and I only have a handful of surround music titles I regularly listen to*, I was considering replacing them with a pair of much smaller Realistic Minimus 77s with 5.25" woofers I have sitting around unused, but the possibility of more titles in the Quadio series had me keeping the Pioneers. But know I finally know which pair of speakers to place back there. :(

The state of the music business in general has me really worried - the people running the Big Labels really seem to have no clue what they are doing. It is almost like they are intentionally trying to sink their own ship...........:mad:@:


* I used my Technics much more for movie surround playback, and while IMO larger speakers sound better even with that particular multichannel source, I am not as concerned with soundtrack reproduction quality as I am with music surround reproduction
 

bmoura

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Same here. The Rhino Quadio pages are on their web site. Says Chicago is sold out, Best of Aretha Franklin in Quad is still available.
 

Old Quad Guy

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Now would be a great time to buy the Aretha Franklin Quad title if folks have not already.

There are no comments on the Quadio page. Should we all at QQ let our feelings be known there for more titles? :) Perhaps remind them again what they have in their vaults that are highly regarded and wanted?
 

wappinghigh

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Joined
Feb 11, 2011
Messages
185
Right, it's what I've been saying from what we've seen, the record companies don't know what they're doing at all. The music market in the 21st century has matured and fractured into sub-groups or niche markets and they need to understand them in order to grow them into larger franchises. Sorry, but there will be no "Beatles" anymore or "super groups from the 70s" where you can just put out one release and every demographic will buy. That train left the station years ago. The best you can hope for is some sensation act like Lady Gaga to quickly cash in before the public gets tierd of the artists antics, unless they continue to have great songs or are replaced by something else for the time being.

The Record companies IMHO had it right with DVD-Audio / SACD 10 years ago to give the public better audio for the same price as a CD. But like Quad perhaps the timing wasn't right as:

1. Unnecessary format war for one "to rule them all." When in reality they now and forever will live side by side as both are enjoyable products and will continue to be so. SACD also suffered from "it didn't know what it was" until it went "Hybrid" with a CD layer.

2. Which leads to how many SACD's we're returned to the store as it wouldn't play on a regular CD player? You couldn't hear what you we're getting so why buy? Many serious collectors and average music fans also just completed their CD collections by 2000. You want me to now buy what? And without listening stations and to also let folks know of the ease, no hassle to connect, well, your going to have a problem selling a product at first. But the public eventually catches on and did buy and still wants as eBay / Amazon prices will tell you, even in a down economy.

Rhino is/was on the proper path of really growing the Multi-Channel market and getting the all important Quadraphonic material a proper modern re-release to preserve for all time these tapes and recordings. Of course Rhino made money from the "Quadio" project and will continue to do so. Look what TCM (Turner Classic Movies) also a division of Warner has been able to do with vintage material like Movies. They also release CD soundtracks from Movies. They continue to grow an ever increasing market from humble beginnings. The folks here are loyal and as devoted as we are. Here is their store (TCM Vault Collection):
http://shop.tcm.com/vault/default.asp?cat=uni&semref=21365

Not that anyone in the Music Industry will read this post, but if lessons are learned and we get the right team working at the record companies so called "small" markets will grow into much, much larger one's as TCM has proved. This also goes for new music, as we also have small fractured markets and tastes. Don't expect downloading/streaming alone to save the music industry because it won't IMHO. It's a matter of understanding these fractured listening tastes/markets and giving better service with better product as simple as that.
Absolutely outstanding post OQG. Well said. But if the music industry put all the available surround mixes onto a download store for us to purchase, it sure would make a difference.

I mean there is NO download track option on the new WYWH release. If the industry had half a brain, they would include a 5.1 FLAC download as part of the package. But shit what do I know....they still think the future is blu ray...

Download is the only future. What is going on with Oppo's new iso compatible firmware release is proof in the making....
 

DaneelOlivaw

300 Club - QQ All-Star
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304
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Texas
As far as surround music in physical or download form, I hope the music industry isn't doing what I heard (from another member here if my memory serves me right) DTS Inc. did as far as why they discontinued their surround music offerings: supposedly they WERE making a profit from selling surround music but it wasn't enough profit. (Again supposedly) they had set an unreasonably high profit goal but sales never reached that high, so their surround music division was dissolved. What the hell?!

I'm no financial expert but to me that seems like a screwy and decidely short-term way of thinking as far as running a business. :mad:@: I wonder how many useful, desirable - and profitable - products are sitting on company shelves right now because they won't allow the company's owner to own summer homes on every continent. :rolleyes:
 

Old Quad Guy

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Now that the page is back up, hopefully things are still on track. I was under the impression the next releases where in mid production by some of the previous discussions mentioned in posts out here.

Question: Is it only the Quadio titles one cannot buy directly from the Rhino web site from all countries or does this apply to all Rhino titles?

One more thing I've been wondering about, is language a barrier from other folks joining in the conversation here? So as an experiment I'm going to use Google translate this entire post in 3 languages, German, Spanish and Japanese. Please feel free to comment here or anywhere on the site even if English is not your 1st language that you know. Thanks.

German:

Nun, da die Seite zurück ist, werden hoffentlich etwas weiter auf Kurs. Ich hatte den Eindruck, den nächsten Releases, wo Mitte der Produktion von einigen derfrüheren Diskussionen in Beiträgen hier erwähnt.

Frage: Ist es nur die Quadio Titel man nicht kaufen direkt von der Rhino-Websiteaus allen Ländern können oder tut dies, um alle Rhino-Titel bewerben?

Eine weitere Sache, über die ich schon fragen, ist die Sprache eine Barrierevon anderen Leuten Eintritt in das Gespräch hier? So als Experiment Ich werdedie Verwendung von Google Translate this gesamten Beitrag in 3 Sprachen, Deutsch, Spanisch und Japanisch. Bitte zögern Sie nicht hier oder irgendwoKommentar auf der Website, auch wenn Englisch nicht Ihre 1. Sprache, die Sie kennen. Dank.

Spanish:

Ahora que la página es una copia de seguridad, espero que las cosas están en camino. Yo tenía la impresión de los próximos lanzamientos, donde la producción media por algunas de las discusiones previas mencionadas en los mensajes aquí.

Pregunta: ¿Sólo los títulos Quadio no se puede comprar directamente desde el sitio web de Rhino de todos los países o se aplica a todos los títulos de Rhino?

Una cosa más que he estado preguntando, es el idioma una barrera de otras personas de unirse a la conversación aquí? Así como un experimento que voy autilizar Google Translate este post completo en tres idiomas, alemán, español y japonés. Por favor, siéntase libre de hacer comentarios aquí o en cualquier parte del sitio, incluso si el Inglés no es su primera lengua que usted sabe. Gracias.

Japanese:

今すぐページがバックアップであることを、うまくいけば物事は順調に進んではまだです。私が印象の下にあった次のリリース場所はここからの記事で述べたように、前の議論のいくつかによって半ば生産中

質問は:1つのすべての国からRhinoのウェブサイトから直接買うことができないだけQuadioタイトルそれですか、これはすべてのRhinoのタイトルに適用されますか?

私が知っ思っていたもう一つは、ここで会話に参加する他の人々からのバリア言語です?だから実験として、私は、ドイツ語、スペイン語、日本語、3言語で、Googleはこの全体の記事を翻訳に使用するつもりです。英語があなたが知っているあなたの第1言語でない場合でも、サイト上でここにまたはどこでもコメントすること自由に感じなさい。おかげ。
 

bmoura

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bmoura

Super Moderator
Staff member
Since 2002/2003
Joined
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Messages
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Location
Redwood City, CA
As far as surround music in physical or download form, I hope the music industry isn't doing what I heard (from another member here if my memory serves me right) DTS Inc. did as far as why they discontinued their surround music offerings: supposedly they WERE making a profit from selling surround music but it wasn't enough profit. (Again supposedly) they had set an unreasonably high profit goal but sales never reached that high, so their surround music division was dissolved. What the hell?!

I'm no financial expert but to me that seems like a screwy and decidely short-term way of thinking as far as running a business. :mad:@: I wonder how many useful, desirable - and profitable - products are sitting on company shelves right now because they won't allow the company's owner to own summer homes on every continent. :rolleyes:
DTS started their Music Disc operation to create a demand for DTS decoders in home audio and video equipment. Once the demand for the decoders was in place (licensing revenues is where companies like DTS and Dolby make their big money), the Music Disc division probably became more of a hobby (to use a Steve Jobs expression about the "Apple TV" product) than the main event at the company.
 

Old Quad Guy

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DTS started their Music Disc operation to create a demand for DTS decoders in home audio and video equipment. Once the demand for the decoders was in place (licensing revenues is where companies like DTS and Dolby make their big money), the Music Disc division probably became more of a hobby (to use a Steve Jobs expression about the "Apple TV" product) than the main event at the company.
That's too bad and short sighted when one is building markets to license products. I suppose DTS made a lot of money off of DTS on movies soundtracks, but they also made money off of music (as I understand it) and had an opportunity to keep building and expand their music department. Big things happen from small seeds when given the chance to grow. But if I'm remembering correctly, I believe Tad mentioned that when DVD-Audio came in the DTS company all of a sudden wasn't able to get access to Quad from the major music labels anymore. Is that correct?
 

Old Quad Guy

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One thing more, if that was true might explain why a 5.1 remix of titles like Cary Simon's "No Secrets" instead of just releasing in a modern form the perfectly fine Quadraphonic version of same material. The major music labels might have been better off taking remix money and work on other classic albums from the 1970s/80s/90s or new material that never got a Multi-Channel mix.
 

Disclord

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Plattsburg, MO (just outside Kansas City)
That's too bad and short sighted when one is building markets to license products. I suppose DTS made a lot of money off of DTS on movies soundtracks, but they also made money off of music (as I understand it) and had an opportunity to keep building and expand their music department. Big things happen from small seeds when given the chance to grow. But if I'm remembering correctly, I believe Tad mentioned that when DVD-Audio came in the DTS company all of a sudden wasn't able to get access to Quad from the major music labels anymore. Is that correct?
I was also told that by someone who worked at DTS (and is now with Datasat) - the Special Products Divisions of the various record companies didn't want anything to do with licensing their surround titles. They wanted that, once worthless "surround music" market, for themselves... and then they screwed it up badly and blamed the death of both DVD-A and SACD on "lack of consumer interest in multi-channel". The hardware companies, except for a few like Oppo, didn't handle things any better.
 

Old Quad Guy

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I was also told that by someone who worked at DTS (and is now with Datasat) - the Special Products Divisions of the various record companies didn't want anything to do with licensing their surround titles. They wanted that, once worthless "surround music" market, for themselves... and then they screwed it up badly and blamed the death of both DVD-A and SACD on "lack of consumer interest in multi-channel". The hardware companies, except for a few like Oppo, didn't handle things any better.
Thank you for the info.

Yes, and then those "Special Products Divisions" failed to release any, if hardly any Quadraphonic titles. How can you have "success" when you don't release titles and build markets?

The major labels should have let DTS "run with the ball" and also release themselves other Quadraphonic titles (no remixing at all necessary) as there are TON's of great mixes that are still waiting to be released. I suppose for the major labels it would have been fair to ask for more royalities somewhere way down the road as the market matured into something expansive. But instead the major labels let the grapes "die on the vines" before any wine could be cashed in on. Hell, they didn't even release the grapes.

But there is no excuse not to release these Quadraphonic mixes now. The technology is here in most folks homes now and many cars already. We also have the "Quadio" program, but we need titles to be released, at least 5-10 right now. The market is here, but can't have market share without product.
 

JonUrban

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"Show me the new releases" and I'll be impressed. Until then..................:zzzzz
 

wappinghigh

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Joined
Feb 11, 2011
Messages
185
We also have the "Quadio" program
Hi OQG. I'm still confused what the heck this "Quadio" program actually is!

Why doesn't the music industry just make it all simple and get together with Apple. Thrash it out. Make a 5.1 surround format suitable to work within itunes, and add every available title onto the itunes store. No DRM like the stereo tracks..

I mean one weekend away thrashing the deal out and it would be done. End of problem.

I fail to understand why this hasn't been done. I mean what in the world does the industry have to lose? The download music train well and truly left the station YEARS ago...
 
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