"Quiet" Quads (mostly LPs) - Any SQ Encoded?

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J. PUPSTER

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I found that issue of Billboard Magazine, August 9, 1975. Here's a list of what quads were available and the pricing. The View attachment 70330Tommy soundtrack, on Polydor, is clearly on the list as album-only quad.
I wouldn’t mind having Grover’s Mister Magic; a Creed Taylor production.
 

kfbkfb

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A few pages later, the "Dealer Demo 'Q' Discs" lists "Acid Queen" as a QS demo song (time to get out my Tommy LP and CD and see how they decode w/DPL and maybe compare the movie Qunitophonic soundtrack downmixed to DS [my Sony Blu-ray player will downmix MCH audio to DS]).


Kirk Bayne
 
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fizzywiggs41

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Tough question. Do you have any idea how you can tell on the album if it's one of the original/first versions? I'm looking at Discogs just to check and I can't really tell. Maybe ones with Milton's name on the jacket? There are various pressings from 1975 and matrix run-outs listed, but I just can't tell. 🤷‍♂️

No I'm afraid not.
Tom Moulton was responsible for the original QS encoded album as well as the 2nd edition Stereo one.
If it's any consolation , there may be more quad lp's than stereo , depending on the sales of her album.
 

fizzywiggs41

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You just didn't want to mix anything to center rear in SQ, if you wanted mono compatibility. Any sound mixed to that position would disappear in mono.

These are 4channel encoding /decoding systems , with four speakers (no more), who gives a flip flying f**k about center channels .
Certainly not this idiot.
 

fizzywiggs41

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Whoever has the unreleased quad of Crime Of The Century in their secret vault, we want to hear it!
That's one of the few that were planned but cancelled last minute . However it may be in the vault/vaults collecting dust.
Same with : Eagles first 2 , Z Z TOP Fandango , Merle Haggard , Bob Marley , Grover Washington , and The Isley Brothers. ...plus a handful of others that were in the SCHWANN Catalogue. Rod Stewart - Smiler comes to mind plus a dozen or so from WEA ....like J T Minstel In The Gallery.

I think it's about time some of these saw the light of day , not just The Jethro Tulls (thanx Steven).
 

kfbkfb

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IIRC, the SQ Raiders/Indian Reservation mix has some content routed to CB, one of the few releases to do this (that was one reason I bought the album).

I should confess that I'm not a big fan of matrix quad/surround sound, I was influenced early in the Quad era by the statement that matrix was stereo and a half (might have been coined by Louis Dorren), although, sometimes it's worth spending about $1 more for an album in order to hear a different [quad] mix of the album.


Kirk Bayne
 

fizzywiggs41

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IIRC, the SQ Raiders/Indian Reservation mix has some content routed to CB, one of the few releases to do this (that was one reason I bought the album).

I should confess that I'm not a big fan of matrix quad/surround sound, I was influenced early in the Quad era by the statement that matrix was stereo and a half (might have been coined by Louis Dorren), although, sometimes it's worth spending about $1 more for an album in order to hear a different [quad] mix of the album.


Kirk Bayne
Yea ok , but Lou Dorren had an axe to grind for any matrix quad system . They were a threat to his discrete system , so that would mean a loss of his time and $ .
Nevertheless they are all still really 4 speaker systems , with phantom dead center channel positioning.
 

fizzywiggs41

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A few pages later, the "Dealer Demo 'Q' Discs" lists "Acid Queen" as a QS demo song (time to get out my Tommy LP and CD and see how they decode w/DPL and maybe compare the movie Qunitophonic soundtrack downmixed to DS [my Sony Blu-ray player will downmix MCH audio to DS]).


Kirk Bayne

In 1976 the DEALER DEMO QUADS ......they use some cuts of the QS unmarked albums from Ed Michel . I believe there are at least 4 of his many on the Horizon/A&M label plus his Alice Coltrane -Eternity with the song "Morning Worship" on the WB album .
Such as , Jim Hall-"Round Midnight" , Dave Brubeck /Paul Desmond "Blue Dove" and David Leibman "Dark Lady" , and an honourable mention of the QS album by Thad Jones and Mel Lewis in the top 100/200 hit albums.
 

fizzywiggs41

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And one that is recommended for use by the Shadow Vector SQ decoder is the song "One Night In Paris" fr the album by , *10 cc -The Original Soundtrack *.
The album is not SQ encoded but the song is nevertheless an SQ recommendation .
 

quadaholic

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Jaybird, First and foremost THANK YOU for taking the time to forward those tracks. I have been looking through them since you forwarded them earlier today. I have some quick observations to pass along, although I expect to dive a little deeper when I have more time.
1) Gloria Gaynor - It ;definitely behaves like QS. A quick decode puts Gloria and the band in the front channels, while the strings and the horns are in the backs. One observation, this doesn't seem to be the track that had the vocals get quiet over the radio, as summing the track to mono has the vocal nice and loud, while the strings cancel out.
2) Tommy soundtrack tracks. These are much less blatantly encoded, almost to the point that I question the encoding. If these tracks are encoded, they are pretty disappointing. I had to go back and check my notes to make sure I was decoding properly, and also dug out some other QS encoded tracks to compare with. Just for the sake of argument, I compared a couple of tracks from the orchestral Tommy recording which is known to be QS, and also compared it with a QS demo track and a Joe Walsh/Barnstorm QS track. All of these other tracks showed much more blatant rear channel information, while the Tommy movie tracks by comparison sounded kind of blah and unexciting. KInd of mono sounding and not too distinct.
So , I'm not saying it's not QS, but if it is , it's disappointing. The orchestral version is much better as far as the 4 channel split is goes. , and nowhere near as "active" as the audio from the DVD. If there were any retail demo discs that might have had the Tina Turner "Acid Queen" track on it I would love to see if it's a different mix made especially for demonstration, as the version I have does not sound all that remarkable.
One thing I've noticed with the soundtrack audio is that there doesn't seem to be much of any audio content at 180 degrees, which is usually the case with QS. Once again, I'm not saying it's not QS, but it just seems odd that there isn't more of that in the tracks. All the other QS audio I had to play around with had a significant amount of this. Typically SQ and QS encoded material has phase information that is pretty "organized" typically, while the tommy soundtrack audio has phase information that seems more random. Usually, it is my understanding that the exceptions to this are when you have material that was recorded "au naturale" without pan pots involved, which is not the case here.
In any case, all I can tell you is what I have found so far, and seeing as I am more of an enthusiast than a bonafide expert, I wouldn't attempt to draw any conclusions. Once again, thank you for getting those tracks to me, as I love excuses to play around with music on the computer.
 

jaybird100

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These are 4channel encoding /decoding systems , with four speakers (no more), who gives a flip flying f**k about center channels .
Certainly not this idiot.
I've never seen the need for a center channel for music. For movies, yes, but in music, even solo vocalists don't need to be that heavily entrenched in that position to sound good.
 

fizzywiggs41

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Jaybird, First and foremost THANK YOU for taking the time to forward those tracks. I have been looking through them since you forwarded them earlier today. I have some quick observations to pass along, although I expect to dive a little deeper when I have more time.
1) Gloria Gaynor - It ;definitely behaves like QS. A quick decode puts Gloria and the band in the front channels, while the strings and the horns are in the backs. One observation, this doesn't seem to be the track that had the vocals get quiet over the radio, as summing the track to mono has the vocal nice and loud, while the strings cancel out.
2) Tommy soundtrack tracks. These are much less blatantly encoded, almost to the point that I question the encoding. If these tracks are encoded, they are pretty disappointing. I had to go back and check my notes to make sure I was decoding properly, and also dug out some other QS encoded tracks to compare with. Just for the sake of argument, I compared a couple of tracks from the orchestral Tommy recording which is known to be QS, and also compared it with a QS demo track and a Joe Walsh/Barnstorm QS track. All of these other tracks showed much more blatant rear channel information, while the Tommy movie tracks by comparison sounded kind of blah and unexciting. KInd of mono sounding and not too distinct.
So , I'm not saying it's not QS, but if it is , it's disappointing. The orchestral version is much better as far as the 4 channel split is goes. , and nowhere near as "active" as the audio from the DVD. If there were any retail demo discs that might have had the Tina Turner "Acid Queen" track on it I would love to see if it's a different mix made especially for demonstration, as the version I have does not sound all that remarkable.
One thing I've noticed with the soundtrack audio is that there doesn't seem to be much of any audio content at 180 degrees, which is usually the case with QS. Once again, I'm not saying it's not QS, but it just seems odd that there isn't more of that in the tracks. All the other QS audio I had to play around with had a significant amount of this. Typically SQ and QS encoded material has phase information that is pretty "organized" typically, while the tommy soundtrack audio has phase information that seems more random. Usually, it is my understanding that the exceptions to this are when you have material that was recorded "au naturale" without pan pots involved, which is not the case here.
In any case, all I can tell you is what I have found so far, and seeing as I am more of an enthusiast than a bonafide expert, I wouldn't attempt to draw any conclusions. Once again, thank you for getting those tracks to me, as I love excuses to play around with music on the computer.

??
Where on Earth did you obtain a QS encode of Joe Walsh's Barnstorm ?

If anything I would have thought "So What" to be a "closet" quad .
 

quadaholic

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??
Where on Earth did you obtain a QS encode of Joe Walsh's Barnstorm ?

If anything I would have thought "So What" to be a "closet" quad .
My mistake. It was a track from "The smoker you drink". A friend of mine sent me the track a while back when I was looking for QS tracks to "study". It was the song "Bookends". Sorry for all the confusion there.
 

jaybird100

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My mistake. It was a track from "The smoker you drink". A friend of mine sent me the track a while back when I was looking for QS tracks to "study". It was the song "Bookends". Sorry for all the confusion there.
I think there's an upmix of "Barnstorm" out there; someone posted one on the "Quad Traders" Facebook group.
 

MidiMagic

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These are 4channel encoding /decoding systems , with four speakers (no more), who gives a flip flying f**k about center channels .
Certainly not this idiot.
The person listening to it cares. What if he does not have a quad system?

- A person listening to the recording over mono AM radio will not hear anything that is encoded at center back in either QS or SQ.

- A person with an FM car radio who is traveling may not get enough signal to activate the stereo demodulator. He is in the same boat the mono listener is in. He does not hear anything encoded to center back.

Here is something I noticed that some QQ members are confused on:

They seem to think that, because the QS speakers are LF RF LB RB and the DS speakers are L F R S, the recordings meant for each system are necessarily different.

The only thing that would make the recordings different for each system is if the mixing engineer wants to put a sound in a certain speaker.

Since I pan each part to where I want the sound image to be (not to where a speaker is), my RM mixes will play equally well on QS and DS (assuming no side imaging problems). Any DS sounds the same, no matter whether the basic DS, or PL-I or PL-II is used.

They will also play on EV-4, DQ, and DD (diamond) by moving the speakers or your chair.
 
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